Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses.
As you've said, I'll try to share my time. Can you give me a heads-up when we're at five minutes? I have a habit of taking more than the five and using up some of Mr. Harvey's time, but hopefully I can do this quickly.
I would like to direct the questioning this afternoon to Mr. Williams.
As you are aware, we're looking at who the Commissioner of the Environment would report to. At present she reports to Parliament through the Auditor General's office, and she has done an incredibly good job over the years.
A little bit of the history, which you may be aware of, is that in 1993 the former Liberal government had in their red book a promise to have the Commissioner of the Environment as a stand-alone office, as is being proposed today. They did not keep that promise, and they had the commissioner as part of the Auditor General's office.
Recently there was a change in the position of the Commissioner of the Environment. Madame Johanne Gélinas is no longer the commissioner, and now we have Mr. Thompson as the interim commissioner. Almost immediately after the change from Madame Gélinas to Mr. Thompson, because Madame Gélinas is so well respected, as is Auditor General Sheila Fraser—both have done a terrific job in serving Canada--there was suddenly this motion from the Liberal members to have the commissioner as a stand-alone.
We're in a political environment in which one would question the motives. The Liberals had a chance to have that position as a stand-alone. Now, suddenly, it appears that maybe it's because of years of critique by the Auditor General. I hope that's not the motive, but it appears that it may be a possibility. So this is the environment we find ourselves in.
In my questions I want to be specific about the pros and cons of having the commissioner's role be independent of the Auditor General. When the Auditor General was one of the witnesses here—as was the former Auditor General—the testimony we received was this , and I'll quote from her presentation: “The Office has become a world leader in environmental auditing. Auditors from around the world have requested our advice and many of them haven taken courses on environmental auditing that we developed here in Canada.”
She also raised concerns in a letter dated February 5, saying, “As I mentioned last week, policy advocacy and legislative audit simply do not mix. Auditors cannot in fact, or in appearance, audit their own work.”
So the question before us is what the best structure is. Could you provide your perspective? What are the pros and cons of having the commissioner be independent from the Auditor General?