Evidence of meeting #18 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was schreiber.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
It's been four minutes already. That's a whole round.
Mr. Martin, please.
5:45 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
This is our last opportunity to speak, probably, Mr. Schreiber. I don't anticipate that on the committee....
I'm sorry?
5:45 p.m.
NDP
5:45 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
5:45 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
We're still wrestling with this.
Will you say, yes or no, that there was any political interference associated with the purchase of the Airbus airplanes?
5:45 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
That's helpful. I appreciate that kind of clarity of answer.
So some public office holders had to be encouraged, if you will.
Brian Mulroney claims he had absolutely nothing to do with the choice of Airbus for Air Canada, yet he fired 13 out of the 15 members of the board of directors and planted 13 Conservatives in there, one of whom was Frank Moores. Do you think that was done to set up the purchase of Airbus?
5:45 p.m.
As an Individual
He left, and then came Peter Bawden, and that was really a mess, because he was after me all the time. But that's something else.
Political interference. Mr. Martin, I'll try once more to tell you. It was more complicated than you think. How the whole thing was done was very, very clever. The Europeans were fighting. All of the European countries involved would have done everything. And I was determined down to my bones to please the chairman, my friend, and help the Europeans survive this one aircraft industry.
You have to get this dimension when you want to understand why the foreign minister went to Canada when the Max Ward deal was on. Do you know that Max Ward gets domestic flying rights?
5:45 p.m.
As an Individual
That's as a thank you for all that's happened. That's okay. I am the competition.
5:45 p.m.
As an Individual
But he was also told he had to buy the Airbus, and you can read it in the paper. You can read it in The New York Times.
5:45 p.m.
As an Individual
The word was out, and the group who met to discuss this and convey it was Fred Doucet, Gerry Doucet, Frank Moores, probably...[Inaudible--Editor]...and Lucien Bouchard. He was at that time the ambassador in Paris, whom I met there and discussed this Airbus business with.
5:45 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
You're saying that the political interference began even before the purchase of the Airbus planes, and it was Max Ward who got this wonderful privilege of buying the domestic line?
5:45 p.m.
As an Individual
And we had to buy the business. We had to buy the Max Ward business to force Air Canada to buy Airbus.
5:45 p.m.
As an Individual
Airbus nearly lost its shirt. The prices were too low.
5:45 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
No, but who would you pay here to get that wonderful privilege for Max Ward? Who did you have to buy off?
5:45 p.m.
As an Individual
Nobody. Airbus was interested to do it. The companies were interested to do it. They knew--
5:50 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
So where was the political interference, then, in purchasing the Airbus planes for Air Canada?
5:50 p.m.
As an Individual
In giving Max Ward the domestic charter flight rights under the condition he buys the Airbus, and buying the Airbus would force Air Canada and Canadian to buy the Airbus.
Look, it doesn't make sense. I apologize. You need an inquiry to get the experts in to explain to you what it is. Look, you have a profession; I have a profession. I think you are great there. But I cannot fly to the moon; I am not Wernher von Braun. And I cannot do heart surgery.
Look, accept that there are things you don't understand.
