Finance Committee on Oct. 17th, 2017

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Burke, thank you for your presentation. I look forward to receiving the slide deck so that we can go over some of those details.

In regard to your presentation about the maintenance, you did a good job of explaining the needs. Do you have any statistics or numbers on what the potential economic impacts would be if some of these harbours became unusable or couldn't handle the same volume or the same size of vessels, or those types of things? Even if you gave one example, it would help us understand the magnitude of not doing anything, or not maintaining or adapting to climate change, and what that could mean for the economy, especially in these communities.

[Osborne Burke]

Especially in rural communities, you can have harbours in Nova Scotia with 10 fishing vessels operating but the entire community is dependent on that facility, or you can have harbours that have 200 vessels that can generate additional revenues, but both facilities are just as important to those communities. As these facilities deteriorate and the assets become unusable, it's not a great situation. Even now, in Nova Scotia, we have fishermen operating from barricaded facilities.

We have a tremendous industry and tremendous resource. With these assets, as I said, over the years there have been more than 1,000 facilities and locations divested. There has been a move, and in fact, in my area, we've amalgamated five or six harbours. We've shared services where we can. That effort is taking place with the volunteers, not on a basis of it being forced on us by the government but working together with the small craft harbours program, where we can, to reduce our footprints where we have two facilities very close to each other. However, in some cases, for safety reasons, we might still continue to have a small harbour that, to somebody looking from afar, might not seem that important but it is critical.

With these facilities in deterioration and the other impacts we're seeing with climate change, storms, digging out sand only to have it return next year, and increased environmental requirements, there are all these challenges to the program. However, we have to remember that the core facilities are the main mandate, and they've identified approximately 720 core harbours. That's down significantly from what it was years ago. Those harbours are critical to the continued operation of the fishery, and when we look at free trade agreements with CETA in Europe and NAFTA as well, trying to increase our exports, these harbours are our roadways. These harbours are necessary for the vessels to leave from, return to, bring the product in, and generate that $9.5 billion a year.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

It's one thing to maintain what you have and keep it up, and I totally understand that, but has the advisory committee looked at or done any analysis on the economic growth potential if you could take a harbour that is significant or busier, one that could handle more if it had the right type of investments, and what opportunities might exist there?

[Osborne Burke]

There are significant opportunities. I can't quote exact numbers, but when you look at the aquaculture industry in Canada, we're just scratching the surface. In Nova Scotia, for example, they've just done a renewal of the policy on aquaculture. There are a lot of opportunities to increase that because currently, with all the resources we have, if you're going to feed just the Asian market, you're not going to be able to do it.

There are a lot of opportunities on the aquaculture side, but as that aquaculture side is growing and the opportunities with it, you have large barges. You have large vessels tied to facilities that are falling apart, literally in some cases. There's a lot of economic opportunity to increase beyond where we are, to do more value-added processing, to increase value rather than just shipping that fish out as it is. There are significant opportunities.

There are significant opportunities in the waste stream. Eventually, the waste stream that we have in the fishing industry will probably be worth more than the actual products we're shipping now. There are a lot of opportunities, whether you look at crab shells or different by-products going to the local dump site that could be better utilized as protein. There are a lot of opportunities with different companies, working with institutions as well, to grow that part of the industry.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Part of the divestment plan, or the strategy or the idea there, is to take off some of the assets that are maybe not as essential or could be better managed either by municipalities or partnerships, even one you described. Obviously I was a municipal councillor, and as a councillor, I wouldn't take on, for example, a road in poor condition, and then all of a sudden take it on as a liability for us.

I know as part of the divestment plan it has to be brought up to a standard before it will be transferred over, but is the core idea behind this divestment plan to get some of these, I don't want to say non-essential harbours, but maybe to reallocate and refocus where resources from the federal government can be better utilized in the future?

[Osborne Burke]

Yes, that's correct. By removing those non-essential, as you say, low activity or recreational harbours that would be better utilized by municipalities, it's reducing that footprint for the core mandate of the core commercial fishing harbours. It happens over time, but eventually it allows us, and the Fisheries and Oceans' small craft harbours program, to concentrate on the critical core mass of harbours. As we say, though, we're still $75 million a year behind, never mind all the new challenges.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is for the Atlantic Partnership for Literacy and Essential Skills.

I don't have the fact sheet in front of me either, but in terms of your ask for the designated funding, the modest ask of $600,000 a year, for how many years was that?

[Jayne Hunter]

We asked for four last year, and that was considering that, during that time, the office of literacy and essential skills underspent on their budget by $13 million, so it wasn't like it wasn't there to give us.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I guess my questions are similar in a sense. Do you have any data—and again if it was on your sheet, it's just that I don't have it in front of me—to suggest, for example, what that type of investment that $600,000 actually means in economic growth or the opportunities for all Canadians?

I'm not just referring to young people, but let's say people who are skilling up, which is how we usually refer to it. Have you looked at those measurables, and what this type of investment actually means for the larger economy? Obviously it makes a big impact on that person's life. Do you have any of those measurables?

[Jayne Hunter]

We have statistics for our own organization, such as how many learners are served, and how many practitioners receive professional development. That's a big thing. In Nova Scotia, in particular, the province pays for a lot of the actual learning programs, but those learning programs need supports, and that's the practitioner's need to know how to best meet the needs of the adult learner coming through. I know there was a report just done on the upskilling project, and it came back with a 25% return on investment for those individuals who were in that program.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Jinny, do you have anything you want to add to that?

[Jinny Greaves]

I don't really think I have anything to add. Thank you.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Great.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We have to cut it there. I thought we went to 12:30 p.m., but we only go to 12:15 p.m.

I just have one or, I guess, two questions really. This is really worrisome. Ms. Hunter, you're still engaged in negotiations on a proposed project with the office of literacy and essential skills, which is now 32 months in the system, and you haven't had a yea or a nay. Do you have any idea why? That is absolutely ridiculous.

[Jayne Hunter]

Your guess is as good as ours. The main proponent is the coalition in New Brunswick. They've put it forward, but we're all partnering. We're all putting our resources and assets into it. It's a fisheries sector project. They keep us hanging on and say that we're going to get a yes, but we haven't gotten a yes. They were quick with a no when asked if we could get some stable predictable funding. When we asked for the $600,000 from the office of literacy and essential skills, they told us no for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

The other question really ties into that.

I don't think there's been a panel—and we've had well in excess of 160 witnesses now, I think—that didn't mention training, skills, matching skills to jobs, that kind of thing, and a lot of requests for more money. But the federal government, through the labour market development agreements, which goes to the provinces, is already spending now $3 billion. That's a lot of money. What are we doing right or wrong? Does there need to be different guidelines around labour market development agreements? Does there need to be more coordination? Should some of that money go to groups like the literacy alliance?

We had the squabble with the province of Prince Edward Island two weeks ago over them needing $150,000, and the province wouldn't provide it. Do we need to do something around labour market development agreements? They're being renegotiated now. Does anyone have any thoughts?

[Denise Amyot]

I used to run those labour market agreements years ago when I was a public servant. I think what is happening right now is that there are needs that were not there before. If you just look at automation, you see that it means there are fewer and fewer jobs for people who don't have basic skills, and it means there is more need for more training.

Look at where we are going with artificial intelligence right now. Look at what is happening. Every year there are fewer jobs that are available for those who have no skills, so that's why there are so many demands.

I don't think the labour market agreements have looked at that aspect. The circumstances are changing to amend the scale right now, and we need to look at the needs of those people because, if not.... If you even look at lawyers, lawyers are at risk with artificial intelligence. Their jobs are at risk. The jobs of truck drivers are at risk, so we need to put way more emphasis into reskilling people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Rory.

[Rory Francis]

I am, again, going to take the positive road and I'll reflect on the biosector.

I think something is going to be broadened in Prince Edward Island using labour market agreement dollars; that is, putting more onus and more responsibility on the shoulders of some of the not-for-profit coordinators of industry sectors—BioAlliance, the aerospace sector, and so on—those folks who are on the ground, close to the companies, the businesses, and have a good relationship with the academic partners. They would coordinate a strategy for identifying the needs of industry; the capacity of the infrastructure we have regionally to supply our labour market needs; and recruitment, retention, and training needs.

It's close to the ground, at the coalface, knowing what's going on within the business community and what the needs are. We do quarterly surveys with companies of the hiring that's happened, the skill areas, job postings, what's not being met, what we need, and what our strategy is for filling those gaps. It's just bread and butter, paying attention to the details, and being very close to the action.

The labour market agreements, at least the way we're using them, and I think we're influencing some other sectors in the province, are getting a better set of results.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, that's really good information.

With that, we will have to adjourn and go to the open-mike session. On behalf of the committee, thank you to each and every one of you for coming in, for your presentations, and for answering questions.

We'll suspend for about three minutes and go to the open mike. We have three open-mike presentations.

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Committee members, we'll come back to order.

We have three open-mike presenters: Hannah Dawson-Murphy, Manal Quraishi, and Rhonda Doyle Leblanc.

Welcome.

Ms. Dawson-Murphy, go ahead.

[Hannah Dawson-Murphy, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm happy to see you all in Atlantic Canada today.

As for me, I'm striving for political change in my riding of West Nova. This makes it important for me to listen to the people and what matters most to them. Since July I've heard a lot of concern from small business owners, employees, and even regular customers on the tax changes. That has been a hot topic recently.

I believe fully, after consulting with tax experts and entrepreneurs in my region, that these changes will hurt small businesses greatly.

Many are frustrated with the lack of consultation on this issue, also. Our member of Parliament held town halls for which fewer than 10% of households were notified, and he has been missing in action since those town halls. I find it worrisome that the consultation period was so short, and in the middle of summer, and despite the opposition's efforts, remained in the same period of time.

I hope you all use your influence on the government to speak about these policies that will hurt not only West Nova, but the rest of the country.

Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much, Hannah.

Ms. Quraishi, go ahead.

[Manal Quraishi, As an Individual]

My name is Manal Quraishi, and I'm the head girl at Sacred Heart School of Halifax.

For over 168 years, my school has been providing girls with an exceptional education, and for me that means my potential is limitless. However, not enough girls around the world have access to education. In fact, 130 million girls are out of school, not because they want to be but because they are denied the right.

This is a travesty, and we believe that educating girls is the key to economic, societal, and political health. Today, Sacred Heart joins voices with ONE Canada to ask our government to contribute to the financing of the Global Partnership for Education in 2018. With a meaningful investment, we can stop this crisis and help millions of girls just like me fulfill their potential.

Thank you.