Evidence of meeting #3 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was businesses.
A video is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Conservative
5 p.m.
Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
For the Canada recovery caregiving benefit, yes, it's 42 weeks.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Schools don't typically close, or at least we don't expect schools to be closed, for over 40 weeks. If they close because of an outbreak, it's usually for a couple of weeks, and yet the benefit goes for almost a year. Why is that?
5 p.m.
Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Don't forget that the benefit also applies for children who could be attending day cares. We have seen cases where day cares have been unable to open at all because of reduced demand for caregiving spaces.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
What do you mean by “because of a reduced demand for caregiving spaces”?
5 p.m.
Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
With parents working from home, some parents may choose to keep their child at home and therefore not request the caregiving spaces they used to. Because of that, day cares may not feel the need...or have the capacity to be able to open and operate.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
So you're saying that there are day cares closing because there's not enough demand for them.
5 p.m.
Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
I'm just highlighting a hypothetical situation. I'm not basing this on any evidence. I'm just pointing to a potential case where a day care that used to be available cannot open for whatever reason. There could be a lockdown in a region. There could be a number of reasons.
December 7th, 2021 / 5 p.m.
Liberal
Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
As my colleague pointed out, it should be noted that the officials working on Bill C‑2 are working very hard and are available to answer our questions.
For example, some important questions were asked that aren't exactly related to Bill C‑2, but that are nonetheless quite relevant, such as Mr. Blaikie's question about how the provinces will deal with the bill. Some questions were also not related to the Department of Finance, as my colleague Mr. Stewart said earlier. I'm thinking of the cost of running these programs, for example. Mr. Poilievre also asked about the future audits.
As a new committee member, I learned about the procedures that could help my colleagues obtain specific answers to their questions. I learned that questions beyond the scope of the discussion can be submitted in writing in advance. This makes it easier for officials to do their job. That's what I did last night. I sent in a question. I would encourage you to follow that procedure, Mr. Blaikie.
Ms. Demers, I want to ask you about workers who may have to repay benefits if, for whatever reason, they were deemed ineligible. I'd like to know the repayment strategy. This matter concerns part 2 of the bill.
Is there a strategy to ensure, as we've seen in the past, that taxpayers don't need to pay back the benefits received?
5 p.m.
Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Thank you for the question.
Strategies and a specific approach are being used to implement the follow‑up measures announced and planned from the outset, given the urgent need to take action. These benefits were put in place and provided in a very specific context, with the knowledge that the government would need to conduct the necessary follow‑ups and auditing when overpayments occur.
A whole process is in place, and it falls under the responsibility of the Canada Revenue Agency. I won't answer for the agency, because this process really falls under its area of expertise and responsibility. However, I'll say that a whole process exists that obviously takes into account the ability to pay.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC
Thank you.
Ms. Demers, I have a second question for you.
In the past, there have been issues with the payment of benefits. The payment of some of these benefits has affected other benefits received by fairly vulnerable groups. The example of the guaranteed income supplement was provided.
How does Bill C‑2 address these issues so as to avoid what we've seen in the past with other benefits?
5:05 p.m.
Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
The issue of how this affects other benefits goes beyond what's proposed and introduced in the bill. I won't delve into that, because it isn't my responsibility.
With the introduction of the new Canada worker lockdown benefit and the extension of existing benefits, the eligibility criteria have been strengthened. The criteria help verify the income required to qualify or whether a worker can access the benefit.
These measures are in place. Additional criteria will be applied to verify eligibility in advance in terms of sources of income; place of employment, which must be in an area with a lockdown order; and the minimum income required in relation to income that—
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, Madame Chatel.
Now we're going to be moving to the Bloc and Madame Sinclair-Desgagné.
That threw me off. I'm going to practise all night.
5:05 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Mr. Chair, you'll have the opportunity to practice pronouncing my name since the committee is meeting several times this week.
I'll continue along the same lines as my previous questions and the questions asked by my colleague, Mr. Baker.
It appears that the Department of Finance based its selection criteria mainly on the fact that health measures were in place and that the tourism and hospitality sector was particularly affected.
Are there any other figures? Has the department collected figures from businesses or sectors affected by the pandemic in the same way as the tourism and hospitality sector? Has any other information been used in addition to data on health measures?
5:05 p.m.
Director, Economic Development, Business Income Tax Division, Department of Finance
Thank you for the question.
I'll respond first. My colleague, Mr. Baylor, can elaborate if he wants.
I said earlier that we know that businesses in all sectors of the economy are facing significant challenges. This is reflected in the claims data for the wage and rent subsidy programs. All sectors of the economy are making, and will continue to make, claims through these two programs.
5:05 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
That's fine.
I understand that other sectors are also very affected, and that other criteria and numbers have been compiled.
Has any consideration been given to the fact that supply chains are completely blocked and that some sectors, particularly the manufacturing sector, have issues as serious as issues in the tourism and hospitality sector?
5:05 p.m.
Director, Economic Development, Business Income Tax Division, Department of Finance
I think so. This is reflected in the fact that both programs apply to all sectors of the industry.
As my colleague, Mr. Baylor, said earlier, there was a certain presumption that the tourism sector was particularly affected by the health and travel restrictions. The plan to target that particular sector was announced in the press release. This somewhat reflects the duality of the two programs.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné.
We'll move to the NDP and Mr. Blaikie.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
We know that many self‑employed people work in the tourism and hospitality sectors, as well as in the cultural sector. Why did the government decide not to set up a program like the Canada emergency response benefit, or CERB, to give them financial support?
5:10 p.m.
Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Mr. Chair, I can provide the first part of the response. My colleagues at the Department of Finance may want to elaborate.
In this case, as has been discussed, these very targeted benefits apply to one‑time lockdown situations and can absolutely apply to self‑employed people. This helps extend access to supports for these workers who wouldn't necessarily have access to other income supports should they face a significant loss of income or need to stop working.
Other work under way involves consultations and analyses to find solutions to help self‑employed people. In terms of employment insurance, for example, commitments have been made. This plays an integral role in the consultations. However, this goes beyond the scope of today's discussion. I'm simply saying that other work is being done in addition to the work being presented.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Okay, but the government itself acknowledges that an issue exists in the tourism and hospitality sectors, as well as in the cultural sector. It acknowledges that these sectors are not yet where they were before the pandemic and that they need targeted assistance.
How can employees need help, but self‑employed people in the same sectors don't need the same help? It doesn't make sense.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, Monsieur Blaikie.
We are now moving to the Conservatives and Mr. Stewart for five minutes.
Oh, is it Mr. McLean?