Evidence of meeting #5 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:40 a.m.
Acting Regional Director, Resource Management and Aboriginal Fisheries Branch, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Okay.
In the fall, in area 16B, the quota was almost met.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Okay.
We've talked a great deal about scientific surveys. You're saying that the activity constitutes more of a rough estimate of the resource, that the catches arrive at the dock and that everything is calculated. However, I gather from your statements that we don't necessarily have the scientific data to analyze the herring stocks.
That said, fishermen are noticing that, even though the season starts, like other years, around August 15, the water is getting warmer and warmer and they almost never meet their quota. Some fishermen even stop fishing after one or two weeks because they aren't catching herring.
Why not postpone the season by a few weeks to see whether it's possible to catch more herring? Fishermen who make it to the end of the season often say that the herring is there at that time. If we were to postpone the fishing season, maybe we could have a better sampling of the herring stocks.
You're telling me that you haven't had scientific data for many years and that we have only a rough estimate of the stocks. Given the lack of reliable information, how can we say that the stocks are in critical condition?
If we were to postpone the fishing season by two or three weeks, we would probably see a little bit more herring. Fishermen have been asking for this for years. They don't necessarily want to catch all the remaining herring, but they want to see whether the herring have moved a little bit from week to week given the warming waters and climate change.
Could we look at this possibility?
9:40 a.m.
Acting Regional Director, Resource Management and Aboriginal Fisheries Branch, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
In the southern gulf, since area 16B is located there, scientific activity isn't limited to counting landings at the dock. A scientific survey is also conducted each year, during which a cruise ship equipped with a trawl and sonars measures the herring biomass in the area.
9:40 a.m.
Acting Regional Director, Resource Management and Aboriginal Fisheries Branch, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It starts in September. Depending on the weather, it can take four to five weeks. It takes place throughout the southern gulf. Our scientific data for the southern gulf is actually very reliable when it comes to herring.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
To go from the critical zone to the cautious zone, how low does it need to go to be in the critical zone? Right now at this stage, it is in the critical zone, right?
What is the TAC amount for it to be in the critical zone? Have you set a number to say that this is in the critical zone and there will be no more fishing this year or we have to make some plans to get back on track?
How do you monitor that?
9:45 a.m.
Director General, Fisheries Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Those levels have been established for some of the stocks, including Gulf fall herring. I don't have the exact threshold. It's something that we could easily provide.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
For this year, what numbers are you looking at for the TAC? Do you think it is going to be lower?
9:45 a.m.
Acting Regional Director, Resource Management and Aboriginal Fisheries Branch, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I believe that the stocks are being assessed this week and that the advisory committee will be meeting next week.
Our next steps for the minister will be based on the information provided and on what the fishermen tell us.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
What would you need to conduct more scientific assessments?
9:45 a.m.
Acting Regional Director, Resource Management and Aboriginal Fisheries Branch, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I will defer to Kent.
9:45 a.m.
Manager, Population Ecology Division, Maritimes Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Right now, in the southern gulf, we have an acoustic index. We have a catch rate series, meaning catch per unit effort, and we have some gillnet information. By and large, from a science perspective, we have a fairly robust picture of current status.
Trends are a little more difficult to work on, particularly projections into the future. There is a pilot study that is being started in the southern gulf, looking at expanding and integrating some of our other acoustic surveys. That's a new piece that we're rolling out. It's very new, so it'll take a few years for enough information to come to us through that survey to allow us to add it into the science advice we provide.
We are also looking at standardizing how we undertake our acoustic surveys throughout the gulf and the Scotian Shelf, actually, with the idea of using the same techniques throughout. The way it works now is that a lot of our acoustic surveys, particularly for herring, are done in collaboration with industry groups, so they're done from industry vessels. They basically collect the information for us. We standardize the gear and all that. We standardize information and then we work it out, but a lot of the work is done in direct collaboration with industry. We're looking at ways to sort of standardize how we undertake that.
However, I would want to circle back and say that we are fairly confident in our understanding of the stock in the southern gulf.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Cormier.
We'll now go to Madame Gill, for a total of five minutes or less, please. I believe Mr. Johns is sharing his time with you or giving you his time.
9:45 a.m.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you.
Is there a coordinated research plan on the decline of herring?
9:45 a.m.
Manager, Population Ecology Division, Maritimes Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Again, I'm responsible for stocks that occur within the maritimes region, so I'm not up on all the particulars that are occurring within the northern gulf and their science planning, but more broadly speaking—and I refer back to the question we just answered—the science sectors within the regions are working more closely together, particularly around acoustic surveys. We're trying to standardize some of our sampling approaches from the commercial fishery as well.
The whole idea there is to try to be more consistent in the techniques we use throughout the zone, not just with herring but with most of our major fish stocks. Through that, we are hoping there may be emergent properties that come out of the assessment.
Other than a case study looking at expanding that acoustic survey, I'm not familiar with any specifics or changes in the northern gulf, but I can get that information for you.
9:45 a.m.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
I was really talking in general terms. I understand that there isn't really a research plan, either on a regional basis or on a broader basis. We're talking about a species for which borders don't mean anything. Research is being conducted, but there isn't any plan.
Is there a deadline for the results of the current approach? Since we're talking a great deal about time and since this involves rebuilding a stock, is there a time limit for presenting the results of ongoing research and taking action?
9:50 a.m.
Manager, Population Ecology Division, Maritimes Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The ongoing work within the northern gulf will be available on a regular basis through the provision of our science advice. Some of the new projects that I'm talking about are very new. They started in the past year or so. The information can be publicly available, but we usually need a few years before we can build an analysis on it.
Certainly the ongoing work, historically—like the acoustic survey and the catch monitoring work that's done in the northern gulf—will continue, as far as I'm aware, and that work is made available through science advice on a regular basis.
9:50 a.m.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
We talked about your needs earlier. In terms of research, can you identify the specific indicators that you're missing and that you need so that we can make consistent and useful recommendations?
9:50 a.m.
Manager, Population Ecology Division, Maritimes Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Generally speaking, within fisheries science, if we're providing advice on an allowable catch or trying to evaluate the status or trends within a population, we do need a time series of catches. Usually we would like to have something that's independent of the fishery, but we do use fishery information as well.
It's usually something that gives us an idea of change in abundance. I'm not going to get into survey design, but you understand what I mean. Certainly there is catch from the fishery, but there are other sorts of environmental indicators that we would collect that we could use to try to evaluate productivity.
These actually help us—
9:50 a.m.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
I'm talking about the indicators that you're missing and that you need right now.
9:50 a.m.
Manager, Population Ecology Division, Maritimes Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes.
There's actually a relatively new program, going back four or five years, within DFO science. It's not directly related to fisheries science, but it is looking at climate change and climate change adaptation. There is a new national working group that's looking at ways of improving the incorporation of environmental information into our stock assessments. This national group is supported by regional groups. I'm a member of one of the regional groups.
We are continually striving to improve the advice that we give. Certainly, techniques evolve through time as well. New technology comes on board, and that sort of thing.
9:50 a.m.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
I want to ask one last question. We were saying earlier that we didn't know exactly what was eating what.
I want to know how this decline in herring stocks is affecting the ecosystem. What are the threats and what are the associated risks and concerns?
9:50 a.m.
Manager, Population Ecology Division, Maritimes Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you for your question. That's a difficult one to ask.
I would reiterate that herring is a key forage species in the northwest Atlantic. It plays an important role in the ecosystem in transferring energy from plankton and zooplankton up to larger animals. Some studies have suggested it's a so-called keystone species.
I don't have a solid answer for you, but herring is an important forage species.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Madame Gill.
We'll now go to Mr. Bragdon for five minutes or less, please.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Richard Bragdon Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Have integrated fisheries management plans been completed for the remaining Atlantic herring stocks? Have any plans been put in place?