Evidence of meeting #17 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was enforcement.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Joanne Thompson  Minister of Fisheries
Amyot  Chief Financial Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Levesque  Interim Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Lambertucci  National Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Saxe  Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 17 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

I want to start by acknowledging that we are gathered on the ancestral and unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people and express gratitude that we're able to do the important work of this committee on lands they've stewarded since time immemorial.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5) and the order of reference from the House on November 7, the committee is commencing its consideration of the supplementary estimates (B), 2025-26.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room or remotely using the Zoom application.

Before we continue, I would like to ask all in-person participants to consult the guidelines written on the cards on the table to help prevent audio feedback incidents.

I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

For the purpose of the opening of the discussion of supplementary estimates (B), I now call vote 1b under the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

With that, I would like to welcome the Honourable Joanne Thompson, Minister of Fisheries, as well as Kaili Levesque, interim deputy minister; Patrick Amyot, chief financial officer; and Peter Lambertucci, national chief enforcement officer.

With that, Minister Thompson, we will start with your opening remarks for five minutes.

8:15 a.m.

St. John's East Newfoundland & Labrador

Liberal

Joanne Thompson LiberalMinister of Fisheries

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It is a pleasure for me to be here at the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

Canada has the best seafood in the world. Around the world, when people see the maple leaf on seafood, they know that they're getting a quality product that is ethically harvested. Canada exported fish and seafood to more than 100 countries last year, and it is one of the largest single food commodities that we export.

There is a global demand for Canada's seafood. Our new government is focused on expanding our markets and buying Canadian to grow the industries that support a strong Canadian economy. This is how we will move forward from a state of reliance to a state of resilience and build long-term prosperity for the fishers and regions that rely on this important sector.

For our fisheries, expanding our markets means protecting the tens of thousands of jobs our fisheries support in our rural and coastal communities. Working hand in glove with industry, indigenous peoples and coastal communities, we are building stronger fisheries and creating more economic opportunity for coastal Canadians.

It starts with consultation, and consultation means that I can make sure that the decisions I take protect and support the fisheries and good-paying jobs. I have been on the wharves hearing from harvesters, meeting with industry and hearing from workers in our plants. They are the lifeblood of our industry, and I'm here to support their work.

In terms of Fisheries Act authorizations, our new government is focused on making more efficient decisions to support major projects of national interest so we can get key products to market while still protecting our fish and fishery habitats.

I was proud to more than double the total allowable catch for northern cod this year, so fishers could see the benefits from the stock. However, I want to address some comments that have been made in the media about the northern cod decision, and I'd like to talk about the facts.

First, northern cod has remained stable since 2017. It is at one of the highest levels in decades and is now one of the largest cod stocks in the world. This year, the estimated spawning stock biomass is 524,000 tonnes. I set the commercial TAC at 38,000 tonnes, representing a highly sustainable seven per cent of the biomass.

Assertions made, including that this decision is short-sighted or that the stock is being mismanaged, are absurd. There is something deeply flawed with the thinking that you can't fish seven per cent of northern cod when it's the highest it's been in more than 30 years and is one of the largest cod stocks in the world. To grow our seafood sector, we must have safe and orderly fisheries and enable fishers to fish when the stock allows for it.

I also want to speak briefly about fishing seasons and the enforcement of these seasons. Seasons protect the long-term conservation of stocks and make sure local communities benefit from the fishery. For valuable fisheries like lobster, this principle is critical to the biological conservation of lobster and to our economic success as well. Seasons are in place to protect stocks, first and foremost.

As minister, I fully support enforcement against illegal fishing. We have invested more resources for conservation and protection operations, so they have the tools and support to enforce the Fisheries Act.

Let me be clear. Any unauthorized fishing out of season is illegal. This year in the lobster fishery, conservation and protection officers seized thousands of traps, released tens of thousands of lobsters back into the water and inspected dozens of facilities. Boats were seized, and arrests were made. That enforcement protects the integrity of the fishery and supports the conservation of a stock that is worth billions of dollars to the Canadian economy.

It is my highest priority to make sure that our fishery continues for generations to come. Owner-operator rules make sure that those who fish see the benefit of their hard work. Enforcement protects our stocks and the rule of law. Science-based management opens access to critical foreign markets. There is too much at stake for our coastal communities to risk these foundations of our fishery.

Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you very much, Minister.

With that, we are going to begin our first round of questions, the six-minute round, starting with Mr. Small.

8:20 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to welcome the minister and her officials to this meeting here today.

Minister, you spoke of the recovery of northern cod, and a recent study shows that harp seals alone consume 24 times the amount of fish that harvesters take.

Do you agree with that study?

Joanne Thompson Liberal St. John's East, NL

I will tell you that—

8:20 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

Do you agree with that?

Joanne Thompson Liberal St. John's East, NL

If it's science-based, I believe in science-based research. We have to take our decisions, obviously—

8:20 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

Do you believe the people who wrote that report?

Joanne Thompson Liberal St. John's East, NL

I believe that we have a challenge with seals in the cod fishery, yes.

8:20 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

Thank you.

Okay, so 24 times the amount of fish taken by harvesters are taken by harps. You have various other species of pinnipeds: grey seals, hooded seals, bearded seals, ringed seals and harbour seals, and we have Steller sea lions on the west coast. When you look at the biomass that's being fed, the chances are it's not 24 times; it's probably closer to 50 times.

What's been the biggest impediment? Would you say markets for seal products are the biggest impediment to having a legit seal harvest? Would you agree with that?

Joanne Thompson Liberal St. John's East, NL

Certainly we have spoken about this before, and yes, markets are a challenge.

8:20 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

Thank you very much.

You agree that seal and sea lion populations need to be reduced in order to bring balance to our ecosystem.

Joanne Thompson Liberal St. John's East, NL

Do you support a cull?

8:20 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

The questions aren't for me, Minister.

I support ecosystem balance in our oceans.

Do you agree that by bringing down the number of pinnipeds, we could increase opportunities for our harvesters?

Joanne Thompson Liberal St. John's East, NL

I believe that we have multiple challenges in front of us with seal populations. I am actively having conversations with industry, with indigenous partners and with harvesters. We certainly need to expand our markets. We need to continue to do the work to find creative ways that we can bring seal product to market. I believe we have to be very measured in what we do.

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

Thank you, Minister.

In the recent budget, $108 million was committed to finding new markets for seafood and agriproducts. How much of that $108 million will be committed to developing new markets for pinniped products?

Joanne Thompson Liberal St. John's East, NL

I just want to quickly note that you did vote against that budget. I think there are multiple conversations happening—

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

Minister, how much of the $108 million is committed to finding new markets to aid in the rebalancing of our ocean ecosystem?

Joanne Thompson Liberal St. John's East, NL

I'm going to turn to my colleague.

Do you have the specific amount?

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

Just the number. How many million?

Patrick Amyot Chief Financial Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

We don't have that number.

Joanne Thompson Liberal St. John's East, NL

We don't have that number. I will get it and certainly get back to you.

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

Have you asked that a chunk of that $108 million be committed to finding new markets for seal products?

Joanne Thompson Liberal St. John's East, NL

I am actively engaged in conversations on finding new markets. I am working with industry. We are going back over the work that was in place over the last couple of years to determine what's happened. I can tell you this is a priority for me.

8:25 a.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

What happened at the summit in June with the EU? Was the trade of seal products on the agenda to be discussed with the European Union in June?