Fisheries Committee on Dec. 4th, 2025

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

I'm going to be very clear again: Unauthorized fishing is unacceptable, period. I have been very clear since I've come into this role, one that I am privileged to hold, that this is a standard we are working to achieve. Obviously, there are supports that we've put in place to move in this direction. It takes time.

I do want to thank the fisheries officers. I travel the country, from coast to coast to coast. I meet with fisheries officers in every region that I travel to, and I thank them for the work.

I want to turn to my colleague Mr. Lambertucci here.

I want to turn to you, sir, because I think it's really important that we clarify some of the misinformation. I want to thank you for the work you've done over these past few months. I think the work on the ground is very clear. I'll turn it over to you, sir—

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Minister, I'm sorry, but Mr. Lambertucci will be here longer than you will, and I want to take advantage of your presence because I think you have a role to play in this. Fisheries officers are telling us that they've been instructed not to respond in some cases. You could change things if you sent a message to fisheries officers today telling them that no one is above the law and that the resource has to be protected.

Are you prepared to make that announcement today, to the fishery officers who are listening, to say that everyone must obey by the law and that illegal fishing has to be stopped no matter where it occurs?

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

I don't direct the work on the water with the fishery officers. It's not appropriate for me to do that. I set a direction that we move in, and I work to ensure, from a departmental level, that the supports are in place. We purchased a new vessel in Nova Scotia. We have moved forward with adding more officers.

In the ongoing work of support, certainly Mr. Lambertucci's role is an indication that we need to support the work of fishery officers. That's my priority. It will continue to be my priority. For the actual day-to-day work, when an officer can safely move forward or not, I leave that to the experts on the ground.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

We completely understand that, Minister, but we've heard here that a directive was sent out to the officers by their directors. It may come from prosecutors warning us of the need to be cautious when certain members of society are involved. However, you have the authority to send fisheries officers and their directors the message that they have to crack down on illegal fishing, regardless of who is involved. You can do that without getting involved in day-to-day investigations.

Are you prepared to make an announcement to fisheries officers and conservation workers that they have to respond in cases of illegal fishing, no matter who is involved?

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

I have been very clear. Unauthorized fishing is unacceptable, period. That's the directive. I leave the work on the ground to the experts. I am not going to sit here and tell someone in a difficult situation what they need to do. That isn't safe and isn't appropriate, but I've sent a clear directive.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

On Tuesday, a former fisheries officer and a fisher, testifying before our committee, told us that they had seen some unauthorized fishers. They contacted the band council to check whether it had authorized these fishers to catch fish for food, and were told it had not. They contacted fisheries officers to report that people had just been fishing without permission and from boats, which meant that it wasn't simple subsistence fishing, but a fairly substantial fishery. The fisheries officers, however, did not respond.

Do you condone this situation?

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

I will say the same thing again. Unauthorized fishing is unacceptable, period, full stop. I will not and I do not operate in close contact to the work with fishery officers. It's not appropriate. I need to be at arm's length. I trust the teams on the ground. They know what needs to happen, and I certainly encourage further conversations. When the opportunity is appropriate, I recommend that you speak directly to Mr. Lambertucci. He's in the position to speak to what happens on the water.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Would it shock you—

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Deschênes.

That concludes the first round.

We're moving on to the second round here, with Mr. Arnold for five minutes.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair

Thank you, Minister and officials, for being here on the budget estimates.

I noted in your opening remarks—and it will probably be noticed on the west coast—that there was little to no mention of west coast fisheries.

Minister, budget 2025 states that DFO is cutting research and monitoring activities, but you started cancelling stock assessment activities for Pacific salmon well before budget 2025 was announced. This is not good news for Pacific wild salmon, because you cannot manage what you cannot measure. Why have you chosen to cut stock assessments for Pacific salmon?

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

I'm going to turn to the acting deputy to answer this, but I can tell you that the stock assessment of the B.C. salmon is incredibly important.

Could you clarify that this is probably misinformation?

[Kaili Levesque]

The iconic importance of Pacific salmon cannot be understated, sir. That is why we have the Pacific salmon strategy initiative. There are a variety of methods in place, including scientific ones, as well as habitat restoration on the ground and stock assessments for both modelling and in-season runs in real time to determine the flows.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

The budget has cut the stock assessments.

Minister, if you need to cut frivolous spending at DFO, then so be it, but stock assessments for Pacific salmon are essential. Yesterday, 35 signatories from across B.C. sent you a letter, urging you to revitalize stock assessments of wild Pacific salmon, which is essential for the health of wild salmon stocks and the prosperity of fisheries and communities that depend on them.

Will you listen to the voices of the academics, conservationists and resource users and the people of British Columbia, and prioritize Pacific salmon stock assessments?

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

I will reassure you that science is incredibly important from coast to coast to coast. It was actually the Harper government that cut science. We are not cutting science.

Deputy, could you—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

No, we are talking about stock assessments that you are cutting in the budget. If you won't listen to these organizations, a large group of organizations, to whom will you listen?

[Kaili Levesque]

Thank you, Minister.

I haven't seen the letter in question, sir, about the specific points raised, but we maintain the stock assessment in the Pacific region for Pacific salmon.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

On July 3, I wrote to you to raise my concerns that DFO's failures to finalize contracts for stock assessments caused the cancellation of valuable sockeye stock assessments on the Fraser.

On October 8, three months later, you wrote back, stating, “Pacific salmon stock assessment...projects were reassigned with the implementation of more cost-efficient stock assessment methods”. However, the next day, your deputy minister told this committee that DFO did, in fact, fail to have stock assessment contracts signed on time, and she said:

It had to do with the hiring processes, but we did fix the problem.

Minister, what was the true reason that salmon stock assessments in B.C. were cancelled this year?

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

It's just been confirmed that they were not cancelled. There was no cut to the stock assessments.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

There were stock assessments that were not done. We heard that from the people who were supposed to be doing that. The contracts were not signed in time.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

To the acting deputy—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

No. The questions are for you, Minister. Thank you.

This is in regard to the 2025 sockeye limitations. After 40 years of dedicated service to Pacific salmon fisheries management, Mike Griswold resigned from the Pacific Salmon Commission's Fraser panel in August because he could “no longer support the Canadian government's [mismanagement of] Fraser River sockeye”. Griswold stated his belief “that the decision-making control of the panel [is being taken away] by a less representative, inadequately equipped group [and] that the directional control of this group has led directly to DFO neglecting one of its key mandates: controlling and managing sockeye spawning escapements.”

Minister, you stated that you are responsible for managing Canada's fisheries resources. Why is Pacific salmon management so failed that trusted veteran experts are resigning in protest?

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

I can reassure you that we rely on science, the knowledge of harvesters and the work that happens in areas throughout B.C. to inform decisions. That is a priority. It will continue to be a priority.

If you'd like to hear from the acting deputy, I'm happy to have her speak to this. I can't and won't speak to that specific instance, but I will tell you that we are committed to science-based decisions.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

You are the minister. You should be able to speak to this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I'm sorry, but I have to cut this off here. We are over time, but if there's any more information on this matter, it could be submitted in writing, and that would be appreciated.

Next, we go to Mr. Morrissey for five minutes.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Welcome, Minister.

Minister, you've been listening to a number of questions in this committee. You posed a very important question to the official opposition member, a Conservative member, on the issue of a seal cull. He failed to answer that question. It's important that fishers understand that he would not endorse a seal cull because of the disastrous implications it would have on the marketplace in Europe and the U.S. that would devastate the east coast fishery. We have to approach it in a pragmatic and practical way.

Everybody knows that the seal herd is growing too large and measures have to be put in place. Rhetoric is easy on the wharf. Dealing with the reality of the intricacies of the fisheries is important.

Madam Minister, I respect your decision to manage this effectively and to protect our key markets in Europe and the U.S. on that particular point.

The other point that I would like you to respond to is that we've had a lot of questioning on demanding more and more from the department in a host of areas, such as protection, infrastructure and research. However, the Conservative opposition voted against every line in the key budget. It voted against small craft harbours. It voted against protection, and it voted against science. The Conservative opposition voted against every line item in the budget of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. It's important for fishers to understand who has their back and who is standing with them.

Would you give a quick opinion on that?