Fisheries Committee on Dec. 9th, 2025

[Trevor Lushington]

I'd be glad to respond in writing. It's not something that I can do briefly. There are many elements in why that is occurring. I thank you for the question, and I will respond in writing if you want.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Mr. Deschênes.

That completes our first round of questioning.

Moving into the second round, Mr. Arnold, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to start off by asking Mr. Lushington.... Actually, I'd like to move a motion because of the testimony we just heard. It's a motion to request Mr. Lushington to provide the email exchange that he spoke about in his testimony to the committee. I'd like to move that motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I will pause your time for this, Mr. Arnold. Do we have the unanimous consent of the committee for the production of this email?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I'm going to go back to your time.

You have 4 minutes and 50 seconds.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I should pause for a moment and thank all of you, as conservation officers, and you, Mr. Lambertucci, as the head of that department, for all the work you do. Sometimes it's thankless work, protecting the resource, and I believe that's why every last one of you initially signed up. Thank you.

I'll turn my question to Mr. Lambertucci.

On October 9, Minister Thompson told this committee that the Minister of Fisheries is ultimately responsible for managing Canada's fisheries resources. Mr. Lambertucci, who is actually responsible for enforcement of the Fisheries Act and associated regulations?

[Peter Lambertucci]

C and P, conservation and protection, enjoys that law enforcement independence to enforce the Fisheries Act. The Department of Fisheries and Oceans has a regulation side that writes the regulations.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Which laws are C and P entrusted to uphold?

[Peter Lambertucci]

C and P enforces all regulations within C and P.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

When C and P personnel are assessing the legality of activities in and around fisheries, do you determine whether the activities are legal or illegal by measuring the activities in question against the laws and regulations that you're entrusted to uphold?

[Peter Lambertucci]

Just for clarity, to make sure I understand the question.... We have conditions of licence that frame part of the regulations. We benchmark against those conditions of licence when we approach an incident.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Those conditions of licence would be within the laws and regulations. Is that correct?

[Peter Lambertucci]

That's correct. We would follow those conditions of licence.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Mr. Lambertucci, are you familiar with the Fisheries Act's definition of the word “laws”? The reason I ask is that, in 2019, the Liberal government amended the Fisheries Act to establish a new definition for the word “laws” that “includes the by-laws made by an Indigenous governing body”. Are you aware of that?

[Peter Lambertucci]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair, in relation to the nation-to-nation and first nations fisheries management plans.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

I mentioned this because, on November 20, you testified that it is the Public Prosecution Service of Canada that determines whether charges are pursued. The director of the Public Prosecution Service of Canada was here recently, and she stated that she was not aware and not familiar with what the Fisheries Act deemed to be law.

Mr. Lambertucci, is your office in possession of every fisheries-related agreement that the Minister of Fisheries has finalized with indigenous governing bodies, including those that would be bylaws?

[Peter Lambertucci]

I would have to take that question away, Mr. Arnold, to see what we are in possession of and to make sure that we are in possession of those laws and agreements.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

You don't know if you have actual possession of laws that could be out there.

[Peter Lambertucci]

We would be very aware of the regulations and the laws that are created, because we are enforcing those conditions of licence. In terms of where those agreements are housed, I would have to check in DFO.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

You may not know, then, the bylaws that could be out there that your officers would be expected to understand in order to either enforce or recognize an authorized activity under a different bylaw than the Fisheries Act.

[Peter Lambertucci]

Mr. Arnold, I would not couch it in that manner. We are very aware of the laws and bylaws that exist around the conditions of licence and the regulations that we enforce.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Are you able to provide this committee with the bylaws you are enforcing that are in these agreements?

[Peter Lambertucci]

I do not have the bylaws with me, but we will resource those bylaws and provide them.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

You will provide those bylaws. You will resource them and provide them to the committee.