Evidence of meeting #18 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was charges.
A recording is available from Parliament.
National Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I have just one point to clarify the question. There are nation-to-nation agreements that take place between resource management and our first nations communities. I don't want to speak for resource management.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
As lawmakers, we have a responsibility to understand what laws are being made in Canada that affect the resources that we, along with you and your officers, are expected to serve and protect.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Arnold.
Next, we'll go to Mr. Cormier for five minutes.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I'm going to share my time with my colleague Mr. Connors.
Mr. Lushington, I want to give you a minute to clarify something, even though we've talked about the email you received. Was this email you received from parliamentary affairs from Minister Thompson's office and staff? Answer yes or no.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Perfect. Thank you very much.
Now I will share my time with Mr. Connors.
Liberal
Paul Connors Liberal Avalon, NL
Thank you.
I'm going to Mr. Didham for a few questions.
Mr. Didham, you're retired from the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary. Is that right? You were involved with the charges moving forward with the constabulary.
Supervisor, Major Case Management, Newfoundland and Labrador Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, that's correct, Mr. Connors. I was in policing with the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary for 26 years.
Liberal
Paul Connors Liberal Avalon, NL
We're doing a review of the act to make recommendations, and amendments as required, to improve it. A number of witnesses have stated that laws under the act are good, but there are challenges with enforcement and getting to charge approvals.
From your experience and your 26 years with the constabulary, working with the Department of Justice, is there much difference between how charge approvals are done at the DFO and at the RNC? Are there any changes we could make to improve the process?
Supervisor, Major Case Management, Newfoundland and Labrador Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Mr. Connors, there are certainly some differences in the charge approval process within DFO and the policing side in becoming aware that there are reasonable grounds to lay a charge and moving things forward. I am aware that there are processes within DFO, particularly here in the Newfoundland and Labrador region, in which we have investigations that are ongoing and we review a file before it moves to the Public Prosecution Service of Canada for prosecutions. That's different from what occurs in most police agencies—and I've worked for several—where the agency decides whether or not there are reasonable grounds to believe an offence has occurred. Charges are then laid, and then the appropriate prosecuting agency—whether it be provincial or federal—takes up the prosecution piece. That's where there are differences.
Personally, I think DFO would be better served—and this is just my own opinion, based on experience—if we had a process similar to the one police agencies use. We could determine the viability of a case based on the evidence and the information and then move forward with our investigation package to the Crown prosecutor for the prosecution piece.
Liberal
Paul Connors Liberal Avalon, NL
We've talked about peace officers. A number of people have mentioned them here today. There have also been witnesses previously who said they needed to be insulated or at arm's length. What are your thoughts on this?
Supervisor, Major Case Management, Newfoundland and Labrador Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
What would they be insulated and at arm's length from, Mr. Connors? This is so I'm aware and answer your question appropriately.
Liberal
Paul Connors Liberal Avalon, NL
I guess it would be from the department. I'd use the department as an example.
Supervisor, Major Case Management, Newfoundland and Labrador Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Okay. Thank you for your question.
This is my personal view again. I've been with Fisheries and Oceans now for four and a half years, and I haven't seen incidents where there's been an overbearing piece that affected my ability to be a peace officer and do my work.
With some decisions in relation to activities, yes, I may have had differences of opinion, but I'd have to give myself more time to think about the arm's-length piece. I don't really have much of a good answer to give you on that.
Liberal
Paul Connors Liberal Avalon, NL
Okay. If you could provide something in writing, it would be greatly appreciated.
Mr. Lambertucci, it was stated in previous testimony today that first nations would have to give consent in order for charges to be laid. Is that a reality?
National Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That is not a reality.
Mr. Chair, thank you for the question.
That goes back to “unauthorized” is “unauthorized”. When our case packaging goes forward, we do not seek consent. It goes to PPSC, which makes that assessment.
Liberal
Paul Connors Liberal Avalon, NL
The chief, or someone with a band or anything like that, has no authority to say charges cannot be laid or should not be laid?
National Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That would not be in the course of our practice.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Connors.
Mr. Deschênes, you may go ahead for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Thorburn, in carrying out your duties, have you been told that when an investigation involves a first nation, you need to have the band council's approval before moving forward with charges?
Fishery Officer and Acting Habitat Coordinator, Vancouver Island and Sunshine Coast, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you for your question.
The answer is yes. For the most part, for each indigenous area that a local—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
I'm sorry. I'm afraid that I'm going to have to briefly stop here.
We see that the bells are going off right now. Given that they are ringing—
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Mr. Chair, I think we have a bit of time. I think what this gentleman is saying is very important.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
I know.
What I'm saying is this: Pursuant to Standing Order 115(5), is there unanimous consent to continue to sit for an additional 15 minutes?