Evidence of meeting #26 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was scientific.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
By when? At what point can they expect the stocks to be a cut above the lower limit reference point?
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The aim is to rebuild in 18 years, with 2023 considered year one from that point.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
That's 18 years from 2023. There's not much hope.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Arnold.
Next we're going to Mr. Cormier for three and a half minutes.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
In short, when the resource was present, there were fishers who fished mackerel for commercial purposes and others who fished mackerel to use as bait for lobster or crab fishing. So there are two groups of fishers who are certainly affected in different ways. On the one hand, there are commercial fishers who just have mackerel fishing licences. For them, unfortunately, it is no longer possible to make a living that way. On the other hand, there are fishers in the industry who depend on mackerel for bait in their traps.
Have you talked to the industry about bait alternatives? Have there been any discussions? Have any programs been put in place to test other bait, whether synthetic bait or bait made up of fish waste, for instance? Have you done any such testing? Have you discussed that? Has money been put into certain programs to conduct tests regarding bait?
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Indeed, much of the fishery is focused on bait. For those who are active in mackerel fishing, that's the primary use. Through the Atlantic fisheries fund, we have provided over $1.6 million for alternative bait solutions. We've worked in the gulf region, bringing stakeholders together to look at the issues around bait and identify alternative sources where possible.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Where do lobster and crab fishers in particular catch their mackerel right now? Do other countries have enough for fishers to get mackerel for bait?
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
My understanding is that much of the bait is often purchased from foreign countries, where mackerel can still be fished.
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It's the northeast stock. I believe in Europe there are sources there.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
What is the state of the stock over there? Is it better than here, if we can purchase it from there?
Director General, Ecosystem Science Directorate, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I don't have the full details, but their recent assessment shows a steep decline. The stock is in a difficult situation in Europe as well.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
That means for fishers and harvesters in the industry, it will be difficult to get mackerel as bait from even those countries.
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Are the tests you've done for alternative bait conclusive right now? Where are you at with that testing?
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Certainly, we can respond in writing to the committee, if that's requested.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Cormier.
To conclude, Mr. Blanchette‑Joncas has the floor for two minutes.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have a question for you, Mr. Vigneault.
Fishers have sighted mackerel in a number of areas where the department's scientific surveys don't detect them. How do you explain this discrepancy between your scientific assessments and fishers' observations?
Director General, Ecosystem Science Directorate, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I want to reiterate that we work with harvesters to get information on what they observe and samples in order to assess the stock. Stock assessment is based on the larvae and eggs collected by scientists at the Maurice Lamontagne Institute in the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence. Scientific opinion is the most robust way of assessing the stock since adult fish can move around the Atlantic very quickly.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC
Does the department's scientific surveys include all the areas where fishers are currently reporting the presence of mackerel?
Director General, Ecosystem Science Directorate, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
From 2000 to 2024, we conducted a series of additional samplings to confirm that there wasn't significant egg production in locations where fish had been sighted that were outside our sampling area. In 2023, we confirmed that this was still a robust method of stock assessment.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC
Can you give us a concrete example since 2022 when fishers' observations directly changed a scientific opinion that was sent to the minister?
Director General, Ecosystem Science Directorate, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes. Harvesters and industry representatives are directly involved as experts in the development of scientific advice.
In 2023, in developing scientific advice, we discussed the robustness of the assessment and took into account harvesters' observations and questions. Those are things that are discussed through peer review.
Bloc