Evidence of meeting #26 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elections.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, gentlemen, Ms. Vincent and Madam Minister.
I'm pleased to have you here in committee today. We of course learned through the media today that there appears to be a Tim Hortons in Afghanistan and that an amount of $3.9 million has come essentially from Canadian taxpayers.
Is that a grant from the Canadian government, from CIDA? Are you aware of that?
4 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
All right, thank you very much.
I've often put this question to you in the House, always hoping to get an answer. Perhaps I'll be luckier today. It essentially concerns Palestine.
Your government was quick to cut off food to the Palestinian people. I've often asked you if there wasn't another way of doing things. You who are so concerned about women—from what you've said today—have you since found a way of providing aid to the Palestinian people who are currently suffering? You'll probably see it for yourself if you go there one day.
China has problems with human rights compliance. I heard you say that you were concerned about gender equality. There's work to be done over there.
Yesterday, in the Subcommittee on International Human Rights, Mr. Burton said that, indeed, CIDA should absolutely review its programs because they were completely obsolete and unsuitable.
I'd like to hear what you have to say on—let's say it kindly—your government's inconsistency on China as opposed to Palestine.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Josée Verner Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Mr. Chair, I want to thank my colleague for her question.
I note that her interest in Palestine is intermittent. She has asked me questions on Palestine, but definitely not on a regular basis. This will enable me to rectify the situation because, if she had regularly asked me questions on Palestine, that would have enabled me to tell her that we have never cut aid to that population.
However, what we refuse to do in Palestine is to pay money to Hamas; that has nothing to do with the population. We've paid money, we're providing humanitarian aid and until Hamas complies with the plan that has been put in place, the Canadian government will provide direct aid to the population. And that's what it has done.
I hope that answers your question. If I had had the opportunity to hear those questions in the House, I would have been pleased to answer them as they were asked.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
That's interesting, Mr. Chair, because, when you ask questions, she doesn't have the answers, and when you don't ask the questions, she does. We should find some ground for agreement.
We'll send you the questions in the mail. That way, you can prepare your answers. Minister, you absolutely must...
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
But that's because we've regularly asked you the question.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Josée Verner Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
We're going to take note of them again, madam. In my opinion, you asked a question on this subject some time ago.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
On the Palestine question, can the minister tell us how she ensures that the money gets there? What we hear is that the money doesn't go directly to the organizations. I suppose she receives status reports. We want to know what's going on over there.
I don't doubt that CIDA's money is on the way, but we also know that there are problems in Palestine. What we're hearing can't be a fabrication. If you're telling me that the money is in fact getting there, tell me where, tell me how and tell me in concrete terms under what program. The population says it's suffering, and I know you're sensitive to that. Simply tell me where that money is. That's all.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Josée Verner Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
With pleasure, madam.
We forward aid to Palestine through UN organizations, because we want to ensure that the aid reaches the population, which is living in an unstable situation. That's how we proceed.
Once again I want to correct your remarks: we don't give money to the population; we give it aid; we meet its vital needs and we ensure, through UN organizations, that the amounts are spent on the Palestinian population.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
Your former colleagues often asked questions on China, whether it was receiving too much money or whether there were too many programs. It seems CIDA's programs regarding China will be reviewed.
Have you considered that question?
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Josée Verner Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Absolutely. What we want to do in China is, of course, to work more specifically on promoting democratic rights, but we're reviewing the various programs on that.
One thing is certain, madam: under this government, CIDA doesn't pay and won't pay money to the Government of China. That's very clear in my mind.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC
Thank you for being here today, minister.
Ms. Verner, you recalled in your remarks that, in the Throne Speech, the government had confirmed its commitment to establish an accountability scheme and to make more efficient use of the funds that Canada sends abroad. Accountability comes up as a key element among those you address in the 2007 report on development results. In particular, you emphasized the aid that you provide to Afghanistan and Haiti, two countries where the situation is so serious that we're no longer even talking about insecurity. In both countries, Haiti in particular, poverty is rank and events happen against a backdrop of violence and insecurity.
As regards MINUSTAH, we know that the Canadian government sent 100 soldiers there starting in 1995. These are soldiers who were trained here. Fifty of those 100 soldiers were Haitian Canadians. Trained in Regina, they were sent to Haiti.
We had a visit from Mr. Jean Fritz Magny, who was one of those police officers. As you must have seen, in an article published in the October 13 edition of La Presse and in another published in The Montreal Gazette, according to his allegations, those police officers trained in Canada never saw active service there. They were shelved, as you say in good Québécois. However, for years they received their pay, which wasn't very high. It was nevertheless US$140 a month. It's said that, even now, there are soldiers in Haiti receiving money but not working.
Your press attaché, Ms. St-Pierre, said that you had ways of knowing what was going on and that you were going to investigate the money that was specifically invested in that program. It was $2 million. I'd like to know what is going on.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Josée Verner Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you for your question, madam.
Indeed, when that article appeared, I asked the agency to check the facts. According to the information I received, that program started in 2001, when the previous government was in power, and now it is terminated. It's not one of the programs that I've administered since I've been at the head of CIDA.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC
If I correctly understand what you're saying, none of the Haitian Canadian soldiers who were trained in Canada is currently in Haiti. Is that correct?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Josée Verner Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
I'm telling you that, according to the article, there are police officers in Haiti who are receiving a salary without working. A training program was established in 2001, but it is now terminated. As for the rest, it's up to the Haitian government to decide whether it wants to keep those individuals in that situation.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC
So Canada is not paying any money.
Is there any way of knowing what was paid in 2000, what occurred and what happened to this program? I think that would be important for the continuation of our work on Haiti. That's one of the objectives of our committee. We're now preparing a report on Haiti.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Josée Verner Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
We'll be pleased to send you those answers. I can already give you the following clarification: based on our information, the former police officers, including Mr. Magny, have no longer been receiving any salaries at least since October 2005.
