Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 1st, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Madame Minister.

We'll now go to Mr. Obhrai from the government side.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Thank you, Madame, for coming. It's a pleasure to have you here again.

I'll be sharing my time with my colleague, Bill Casey.

Today I'm not going to ask you questions. I'm going to leave you on the side. My question is directed to Mr. Greenhill.

Mr. Greenhill, you're in an agency that has had a lot of experience over the last forty years in Canada. I have sat in this Parliament for eight years, and I have seen three or four reports coming every two or three years from CIDA. They talk about the same thing you're talking about here--aid effectiveness, working for women...doing the same things. I've heard absolutely nothing in this report that is different from the previous reports your department has thrown at us. So I keep wondering how effective your department has been over all these years. Where is the report card that says this aid has been effective?

Let's take the example of Africa for a change. You've been pouring money into Africa, yet it is still a mess. We talk about achieving the same targeted goals. There's a demand for more money; there's a demand to reach 0.07%. If we carry on giving you money, you're going to come back here after two or three years with the same kind of report, the same kind of situation, the same kind of thing. So where is the effectiveness in what you've done over the last forty years? Why do we keep hearing about the same things?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Obhrai.

Mr. Greenhill or Madame Minister.

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Before turning the floor over to Mr. Greenhill, I'd simply like to recall that our government has made a firm commitment to make aid efficiency a priority. That was stated in the Prime Minister's Throne Speech. Of course, we intend to focus on results-based management.

[Robert Greenhill]

I think those are absolutely the right questions, and the development report of 2007 that the minister made reference to should be providing clear examples of that.

Let me provide three or four examples of what we've been doing under Minister Verner's direction in this regard.

First of all, you'll find here a series of results, which were actually six months of effort within the agency, to ask, of all the money we've been spending on health care, what has actually led to real results, real lives saved, so that we can answer those kinds of legitimate questions? You'll find within it, for example, some of the work we've done with Stop TB, which has saved half a million lives, primarily children, at a cost of $200 per life saved. You'll find examples of how we worked with the Tanzanian researchers in government and with the IDRC to reduce child mortality by 40% through something called the Tanzania essential health interventions project. You'll also find examples of how Canada has played a leadership role in vitamin A and iodine deficiency, in work that is estimated by UNICEF to save millions of children from mental retardation.

The reason we were asked to produce this was...given the government and the minister's focus on accountability, we wanted to actually find out what had been working in the past that we could actually be leveraging and moving forward on.

A second example I would provide is this. The countries mentioned recently of Haiti and Afghanistan, which are difficult countries, are made impossible if we're not committed for the long term to try to make a difference. So there were two key decisions made in the last few months to make a strong $520 million, five-year commitment to Haiti to maintain the leadership so that we can actually be there for the long term and be judged in terms of results.

I would note that as a result of key decisions that we have been directed to move on by Minister Verner, likely this year we will have the highest country concentration that we've had in over a decade.

I think there's a lot more we have to do--you know my views on that--but my sense is that with the approach laid out here, we will be in a measure to be held accountable and will be able to provide you with ongoing answers to those questions.

There will never be a perfect answer. In the private sector one always looks at increasing profits, reducing costs, becoming more innovative. Those three issues always come back again and again. What's important is that you show progress against those goals. My strong commitment is to ensure that we do what we can in our agency to support the policy laid out by Minister Verner, to ensure that there's not only effectiveness in terms of strategic prioritization and program delivery, but clear communication of the results back to you and to the public.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Greenhill.

I would like to remind Mr. Obhrai and also the minister that this committee is in the middle of completing a report on aid effectiveness in Haiti, using Haiti as a case study. I think the recommendations of this committee, of all parties...I'm certain that the government will look forward to receiving that report and adopting some of its recommendations.

Mr. Casey.

[Bill Casey, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thanks very much.

The minister mentioned the road map and the Middle East peace process, and I just want to follow that up and ask about the involvement of CIDA, if I could, in that process. Part of that process was the working groups that were established under the Oslo accords, of which Canada chairs the Refugee Working Group. That working group is focused on family reunification, job training, child welfare, and social infrastructure. I know it's dormant but still alive. Does CIDA play a role in that? Do they contribute funds to it now? I don't expect to have that exact answer, but do you have a commitment to this process, because it's certainly number one on your graph here, “Strategic Focus”? That would certainly be a way to focus aid on people who need it, and also to relieve the tensions in the Middle East and to help both Israelis and Palestinians, and the whole region.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Madam Minister.

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, sir.

Canada, as you know, has made a commitment to support the Palestinian population, which is going through a tough time. Since last March, Canada has provided $15 million in humanitarian aid to help the Palestinians in the west bank and Gaza.

As you know, like other donors, CIDA will not provide funds to the Hamas government if it refuses to comply with the principles of non-violence and the peace accords or to recognize Israel.

As regards CIDA's cooperation in the process, we know that the agency is giving funds to UNRWA, an assistance fund for Palestinian refugees.

Perhaps you'd like to add a comment.

[Bill Casey, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Does the money come through the working group? The working group is not part of the United Nations. Could I ask if I could get together with somebody in the department who knows the connection between CIDA and this working group? I'd like to have a briefing on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Casey has a long-standing interest in this working group. He's done some excellent background work. It would certainly be good if we could facilitate some dialogue between him and the department.

We'll go now to the NDP.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I haven't yet had the experience of having a parliamentary secretary go after his own government. But there's a first time for everything.

I'll get right to the point on malaria. After five years of spearheading this program of netting, we know that it's working. I think 60% of African children were supposed to have been protected. That was the goal, and people were saying that netting was the way to go. Apparently, we only have about 3% covered, so we're not there yet and we've got a lot of work to do. The fact that we're changing the method is disturbing to many people. It's been in the press recently. Are we going to continue the netting? If not, why not?

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you for your question.

As for the fight against malaria, I can tell you that CIDA is working in cooperation with the Red Cross and UNICEF. In 2006-2007, Canada doubled the budget it allocates to the prevention and fight against that disease. It now stands at $42 million.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Sorry to interrupt, but that's with the Red Cross?

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

That's with the Red Cross and UNICEF.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Why not just the Red Cross? Am I correct in understanding it was with the Red Cross before? Has there been a shift?

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

No.

Funds were granted to both the Red Cross and UNICEF.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Did you want to elaborate, Mr. Greenhill?

[Robert Greenhill]

This is an example of public information not corresponding with the analysis we've received. Canada has actually been one of the leaders in proving the effectiveness of bed nets. In the late 1990s, CIDA, along with the IDRC and African researchers, proved the effectiveness, in practice and cost, of bed nets in Tanzania. Canada has been a leader in distributing literally millions of bed nets through various programs. We've also been a leader in experimenting with different approaches—providing free bed net distribution through the Red Cross and UNICEF, and experimenting in Tanzania with market-based approaches with the Mennonite Economic Development Associates. In particular, the work we are doing with the Red Cross, which is a valued partner, has been successful and is ongoing. It's actually not correct to say that it has been stopped.

The other important element is the results. Where can one see impact? Bed nets have been shown to be extremely effective. There has been a massive ramp-up in the last several years, particularly the last three. The statistics that were referred to, which cite a 3% utilization in Africa, date from 2003. More up-to-date sentinel programming analysis, which looks specifically at what's happening on the ground, shows coverage in some areas of 30%, 40%, or even 60%.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

And not all regions, just certain areas.

[Robert Greenhill]

But for the region of Africa as a whole, the number will be well above that 3% three-year-old number.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Okay, but we don't have the number yet.

[Robert Greenhill]

No. We can certainly provide a more up-to-date analysis, but--

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Sorry to interrupt, because I just have a little bit of time, but on the estimates that we just received the other day, if we can turn to the supplementary estimates, page 17, where it talks about the--

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Dewar, we're not here to discuss the supplementary estimates.