Evidence of meeting #125 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was israel.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Quebec and Atlantic Canada, B'nai Brith Canada
That was in mid-November, wasn't it?
Director, Quebec and Atlantic Canada, B'nai Brith Canada
I would remind you that, on November 7, 30 days after October 7, the synagogue at which I am a cantor in Dollard-des-Ormeaux was the target of a bomb attack.
In that context, I think what Mr. Robertson said at the time was quite appropriate. If we start bringing everything that happens over there to this country, our society's social fabric will be horribly torn apart.
Director, Quebec and Atlantic Canada, B'nai Brith Canada
Give me a reason why the current Palestinian Authority, led by Mahmoud Abbas, is in its twentieth year in power when the mandate was four years.
Director, Quebec and Atlantic Canada, B'nai Brith Canada
Structures have to be put in place first. I'm talking about democracy and accountability, among other things. Yet there are none.
Liberal
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Kowalski, I'd like you to tell us about the communities and movements you work with in Israel, including groups like Standing Together and Peace Now, who are protesting to demand a ceasefire and a peace agreement, as well as the release of hostages, of course.
What kind of work do you do with those groups?
Executive Director, JSpaceCanada
Thank you for that question.
It's very important to recognize that there are so many organizations, like Standing Together and Peace Now, on the ground in Israel and Palestine doing this work.
We work in close partnership with both Israelis and Palestinians because we believe that any solution that we want to bring forward has to come, first and foremost, from the ground. Their work to advance the issues of a two-state solution, Palestinian statehood and equality and equity in the land is really helping to advance how Israelis and Palestinians see their future.
I would like to speak a little bit to the question of support of the two-state solution, which can be attributed to a lot of these civil society organizations. We should recognize that both Israelis and Palestinians, when they are given a framework for what a two-state solution would look like.... I heard a lot of testimony that the numbers in support of a two-state solution in Israel and Palestine were quite low. That actually is not the case when a framework is given and it's explained what a two-state solution looks like. We actually see broad support—majority support—for that position.
It is so important that we continue to work with peace organizations like those that are doing the work on the ground because civil society.... Top-down and bottom-up approaches are both needed.
Liberal
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Mr. Topas, I want to take the opportunity to talk to you about anti-Semitism. Certainly there was anti-Semitism in Canada before October 7, 2023, and there was anti-Semitism in Canada after October 7, 2023.
Since that time, we've seen some pretty ugly stuff happening in our streets, to our schools, to our synagogues, to our institutions and in our neighbourhoods. We have a government that says, on the one hand, that Israel has the right to defend itself, but on the other hand voted for a motion that would deny it the means to defend itself by banning arms permits.
We have a government that is funding UNRWA, even though it's established that UNRWA was complicit in the October 7 attacks and has been teaching young Palestinian children to hate Jews for decades, which has contributed largely to this problem.
We're now studying.... In the context of our friend Israel being attacked and 1,200 Israelis being brutally slaughtered and more taken into brutal captivity, the Liberal government thinks it's a good idea to study unilateral recognition of a Palestinian state.
Do you think the policies of this government specifically exacerbate the problem of anti-Semitism in Canada in our streets?
Director, Quebec and Atlantic Canada, B'nai Brith Canada
What probably scares me more is that rather than having unilateral moral clarity on this issue, we are finding moral perfidy around all segments of different levels of government. I'm not going to single out any particular level of government.
We know what is going on in the streets of Montreal and in the streets of Toronto. We know what is happening on campuses. We believe that this is basically that someone let the cat out of the bag and people are taking full advantage of it, sadly.
If you ever listen to any of the American networks, you'll know that we have a very interesting organization in New York called Tunnels to Towers. It's an organization that was started to protect the widows and families of those people who died in 9/11 and the widows and families of soldiers who died fighting the United States' wars, etc., from abject poverty.
What we have going on right here by financing UNRWA is not Tunnels to Towers; we have dollars to tunnels. We're basically giving money to UNRWA and UNRWA is using that money to finance, promote and commit terrorism. That has to stop. That is a total lack of moral clarity.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
To my question, do you think these Liberal policies are helpful in terms of containing anti-Semitism, or do they exacerbate the problem?
Director, Quebec and Atlantic Canada, B'nai Brith Canada
Again, we are non-partisan, so I cannot characterize the actions of any particular party. All I can say is that what is going on under present levels of government is unacceptable.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you.
For the last question, we go to MP Alghabra. You have three minutes.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank our witnesses for being here and for their testimony.
Mr. Fogel, I want to follow up on something you said. You said the Palestinians are not entitled to a Palestinian state. I'm curious to know, in your opinion, what they are entitled to, those stateless millions of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Are they entitled to something?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs
I don't think that I framed it that way. I think what I said was that in accordance with UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, Palestinian statehood is not an automatic entitlement and that there were expectations based on those two resolutions. Frankly, we can't cherry-pick; either we're committed to the UN or we're not. If we're committed to the UN, then we have to follow the formula that the UN put forward in order to achieve that end of Palestinian statehood.
I think resolutions 242 and 338 recognize that Palestinians had an opportunity in 1947 for the absolute entitlement to statehood, had they accepted the partition plan. By virtue of having rejected it and having gone to war against the nascent Jewish state, they compromised their ability to acquire that right of statehood, and now they had to, frankly, earn it.
November 5th, 2024 / 11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga Centre, ON
I'm sorry, Mr. Fogel, but I only have three minutes, and half of the time is already gone.
I want to follow up, because I'm still curious about your opinion. I mean, we can argue about what the UN says about entitlement to a Palestinian state or not, but I want to know your opinion, because in my opinion, the State of Palestine is not ours to give or take back. It's not ours to reward or hold back. The Palestinians are entitled to a Palestinian state. It doesn't prejudge the outcome of negotiations or borders or right of return, etc.
Are Palestinians entitled to their own state? They are currently stateless.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs
I support Palestinian statehood as an outcome of direct negotiations, unequivocally.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga Centre, ON
By the way, every state recognition by Canada is unilateral. People keep throwing the word “unilateral” around; it's always unilateral, because it is an admission. It does not, again, preclude or prejudge the outcome of a negotiation. Therefore, there's wisdom in affirming the Palestinians' right to statehood, particularly today when we appear to be moving away from the two-state solution.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs
Being mindful of the time, I will simply say this: In Canada, successive governments have repeatedly recognized the desired end of having Palestinian statehood as a result of direct negotiations. That's not the debatable point here. What the committee, I think, is looking at is what the conditions and the criteria are that would be helpful in order to expedite that end goal.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you. I see we have a couple of minutes remaining.
MP Morrice is here. Is it the will of the committee to allow him to ask a question?
