Government Operations Committee on Nov. 5th, 2009

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Let's have an intelligent discussion.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

If it's not going to pass, we'll just vote on it and proceed.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

If I can assure Mr. Warkentin, one, we are entitled to that information, as this is a parliamentary committee and we are parliamentarians, understanding, however, the importance of this information being kept confidential. Because a commitment was made to those people, we as parliamentarians also owe that obligation to the people involved. It is our obligation.

I would insist on the motion being the way it is. We want the information the way it was provided to the PBO, but for the record, we understand our obligations to keep confidential information confidential.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

Madam Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Madam President, I wonder about there being confidential information. I imagine everyone operates the same way. There are forms that have to be filled out and there are city directors general. We have their contact information. I my opinion, if 2% of the information in all these documents is confidential, that is very good.

I am prepared to go to a vote. I call the vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Duncan, and then Mr. Warkentin.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

I would just like to say that I've been dealing with an individual who was with the Canadian Forces in Somalia. During the course of his service there, we had a bunch of records released that compromised his social security number. I think there's a parallel here, because his life has been made very complicated, up to and including the current time, because that kind of information was released through a process not unlike what we're talking about right now.

I think the risk is too great. I don't see what the big deal is about taking people's personal confidential information out of what is released to the committee. I think it's a very appropriate safeguard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Warkentin, and then Ms. Hall Findlay.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

I don't want to get into an argument. No one has a sinister plot to withhold information that would be pertinent or helpful to committee members. All that is being suggested is that we remove the information that is protected and which, if released, one of us would have to take responsibility for.

Having said that, could I suggest that we have Martha Hall Findlay respond and then move to a vote on my amendment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Madam Hall Findlay.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I will repeat that we understand the value and the importance of this information to individuals. I can't speak to the circumstance that Mr. Duncan is referring to, Madam Chair, but if it's a suggestion that there's a lack of confidence in parliamentarians to keep confidential information confidential, I actually take some exception to that.

We are parliamentarians. Our job is to keep this information confidential. I appreciate the importance. I actually stressed our understanding of that importance in my earlier comments. I want to stress it again. Apparently, I need to do that.

I would actually now call for a vote, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Okay. So that I know totally what I'm talking about, there's been an amendment moved by Mr. Warkentin that a sentence be inserted in the motion so that it would read: “...November 2009, a copy of all documents while respecting all applicable provisions outlined in the Privacy Act...”.

Those in favour of the amendment, please raise your hands. Those against?

I break the tie. The amendment is not carried.

(Amendment negatived)

Mr. Warkentin, just to let you know, I've done these studies in camera--the only thing we can do when we're studying this amount of material. It has to be in camera.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Okay. Could I just have your assurance, then, Madam Chair, that the information is going to be kept in our committee and in camera?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Oh, no. Parliamentarians have a right to receive it. You will receive your copy marked “private and confidential”. Let your staff know. Because you are parliamentarians; that's your job.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Well, while Parliament is supreme, committees aren't. Our former chair made that absolutely clear to us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

But we have been told parliamentary committees receive this information. You can receive it....

Give me one second.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Yes, I think we want some clarity on this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Warkentin, the clerk will be receiving it and will be distributing it to you in committee. You then become responsible.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Marc-Olivier Girard]

Do you want numbered copies?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Yes, I think we will number the copies.

[The Clerk]

And then after a meeting, would I collect all the documents or...? But if it's 4,000 pages, it might be--

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

But it's electronic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

It's electronic so what happens is that it will be--

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

It is not electronic. That's the motion, so--

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

The motion says “electronic”, so can we...?