Government Operations Committee on June 9th, 2020

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair. I don't—

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

You don't get to determine my answer, Ms. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

I didn't ask you to speak about the CCB. I asked—

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I didn't interrupt your answer. I am speaking about the CCB.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

One at a time, please. If I had a gavel, I'd be gavelling it right now. We had a specific question, I believe, from Mrs. Block.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I'm trying to answer, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

If you could, get to it quickly, then, sir.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I am. I didn't interrupt her, so she shouldn't interrupt me.

The Canada child benefit is there to help families. It has provided more money to nine out of 10 families. It has lifted hundreds of thousands of kids out of poverty. It has ended the practice of sending cheques to millionaire families. I am proud of what we've been able to accomplish through the Canada child benefit.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I asked a specific question about the CCB top-up. I do understand why the CCB exists. I understand what it is meant to do, but I would like to know—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

I have to rule that's more a point of debate than a point of order, but certainly you're more than able and willing to pose the question again if you wish.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you.

Minister, I understand what the CCB is intended to do, who it's for and the benefit of it, but I'm asking you a specific question. Will Canadians who receive the CCB top-up in error be asked to repay it at tax time?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

With the Canada child benefit top-up, we are providing a one-time support top-up of $300 per child for families that are already receiving the Canada child benefit to help those families through the COVID-19 pandemic. If there are certain issues that have come up as a result of providing that additional payment, we will deal with those issues, but I am proud of our government's effort to support families with an extra CCB payment at this difficult time.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

We understand how proud you are, Minister. You had questions from my colleague Mr. Green about how you're going to deal with fraudsters. We recognize that in these unprecedented times errors are made. What I guess I'm wanting to hear from you is how you are going to determine what's an error and what may be a fraudulent claim. Are you going to ask families who have received this benefit in error to repay it at tax time?

How are you going to determine what is a fraudulent claim or who has received something fraudulently and who has received something in error?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I believe I've answered the question. What I said earlier is that we will deal with any issues that have come up, any minor issues that have come up as a result of the additional payment, but the essence of the additional payment is something that, yes, I am proud of. I will continue to say that because it is lifting families out of poverty. It is helping families at this difficult time and it is doing something that you guys did not do—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much, Minister.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

—which is not sending cheques to millionaires.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We'll now go to Mr. Kusmierczyk, for four minutes, please.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am replacing Mr. Kusmierczyk for now.

Minister Hussen, thank you for appearing before our committee.

I know on Friday you took part in the march in support of Black Lives Matter. I know the Prime Minister announced that Canada will be supporting the UN Decade for People of African Descent. Minister Hussen, I know you've had a lot of conversations with the black community in Canada throughout your whole mandate.

What have you heard that relates to COVID-19 and the impacts it has had on our black community in Canada, but also what have we done to support the black community in Canada?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Thank you so much for that really important question.

Anti-black racism is real. It impacts the lives of millions of our fellow citizens. We have done a lot, but more work needs to be done. We have supported black Canadians through a $25-million investment in building capacity and infrastructure in black Canadian community organizations so they can better serve black Canadians. We are the first government to sign on to the UN Decade for People of African Descent, which has a number of commitments under it. We are committed to making sure we address the aspirations of black Canadians to live a life free of anti-black racism. We will continue that work together with members of the black Canadian community who, as a result of the marches and the calls to action, are asking us to listen more carefully to their lived reality and to address their aspirations in a way that is inclusive and that pays particular attention to the reality of anti-black racism in Canada.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I want to move on to the CERB. I am interested in the thought process and how.... Obviously you are responsible for Service Canada. Overnight, many people lost their jobs and you had to find a way to deliver the CERB.

Can you talk about how, with Service Canada, you were able to deliver CERB to millions of Canadians across Canada?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I believe that when the story will be written about how our government was able to move quickly to help Canadian workers and families who had lost their jobs or whose jobs had simply disappeared because of the COVID-19 pandemic, there will be a very major section on the CERB, the Canada emergency response benefit. I believe that the government moved very quickly and effectively to deliver real and tangible support to Canadians.

I will now turn over the rest of the answer to my officials to provide a bit more granular detail on how Service Canada was able to collaborate with the Canada Revenue Agency to put the mechanism of delivery together.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

They will have about 40 seconds to respond.

[Lori MacDonald, Senior Associate Deputy Minister, Employment and Social Development, and Chief Operating Officer for Service Canada, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Thank you, Minister, for the question, and thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to share, first and foremost, that our teams have been working collectively with CRA and here at Service Canada, both on the policy and on the operational side, to ensure we're able to develop a plan and a mechanism to deliver this program to Canadians.

We had staff here working 24 hours a day, and at some points actually sleeping here overnight, to make sure our systems were working correctly and that in fact we were finding the right mechanisms, the policy's implications and the appropriate IT to deliver this service to Canadians. At the same time, we redeployed 3,000 staff to do processing. We hired—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Ms. MacDonald, I hate doing this. I honestly mean that. However, we are limited in time. I would ask that the fullness of your response be provided in writing as soon as possible and directed to our clerk.

We will now go to our next four-minute round, and that goes to Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Tom, I'd like to start by introducing my motion that I submitted a few days ago regarding the PBO report, please.