Government Operations Committee on Nov. 30th, 2020

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Glover and Mr. Weiler, for your questions.

This comes to the end of our questioning. I appreciate all of the officials and the minister attending here with us again in such a short time frame. Thank you, again.

To the committee, we are going to suspend briefly while we bring in the president of the Treasury Board and his officials.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

We will now resume the meeting.

Minister, if you have some opening statements to present, please do so.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, President of the Treasury Board]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would first like to thank the committee for inviting me back to speak this time to the supplementary estimates (B) 2020-21, which were tabled last October.

With me today, I have the pleasure of introduce to you Glenn Purves, assistant secretary, expenditure management sector; Karen Cahill, assistant secretary and chief financial officer; Sandra Hassan, assistant deputy minister, employment conditions and labour relations; and finally Kathleen Owens, assistant comptroller general, acquired services and assets.

These supplementary estimates (B) are the second of three supplementary estimates planned for fiscal year 2020-21. They outline new and updated spending needs for programs and services that were not sufficiently developed in time for inclusion in the 2020-21 main estimates.

The government needs to make sure that it gives Canadians the support they need during the COVID-19 pandemic, while at the same time promoting our country's economic recovery and prosperity .

We do this by investing in critical health care and supporting the safe restart of our economy. Our spending plans, the ones you have in front of you, will help Canada thrive, and remain strong and united.

The government continues to invest in Canadians and the economy, particularly in efforts to respond to the public health threats of the COVID-19 virus and to minimize its health, economic and social impacts.

These supplementary estimates (B) present a total of $79.2 billion in incremental budgetary spending. This includes $20.9 billion to be voted by Parliament and $58.3 billion in forecast statutory expenditures.

As you know, vote expenditures require annual approval from Parliament through an appropriation bill. These types of expenditures include operating, capital, and grants and contributions.

Statutory spending does not require annual approval from Parliament because that type of spending is already authorized by Parliament through separate legislation, such as the federal-provincial transfers that are pursuant to the Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act.

In these supplementary estimates (B), most of the $20.9 billion in new voted spending is for emergency responses to the COVID 19 pandemic, including medical research, vaccine development and purchases of personal protective gear, and medical equipment and supplies. They also cover economic responses to the pandemic, including support for small- and medium-sized businesses, salary top-ups for essential workers, and funding for provinces and territories to safely restart their economies, and bring students back to school.

Overall, funding requirements for the top 10 organizations account for approximately 85% of the voted spending sought through these estimates. Of those 10 organizations, eight are each seeking more than $500 million to support their priorities. For example, in my department, the Treasury Board Secretariat is asking for $646.6 million.

In addition, the $58.3 billion in planned statutory spending included in these estimates reflects the government's key response measures and emergency supports, including $28.5 billion for the Canada emergency response benefit, $12.3 billion for payments to provinces and territories for the safe restart agreement, $3.8 billion for medical research and vaccine development and $3.3 billion for the acquisition of protective gear and medical equipment.

These supplementary estimates (B) also include $1.3 billion in non-budgetary measures related primarily to student loans.

To conclude, my officials and I are very appreciative of the time the committee spends studying the government's spending on behalf of Canadians.

We would be pleased to take any questions you may have.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you very much, Minister Duclos

We will now start the first round of questions with Mr. Paul-Hus.

You have six minutes.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good evening, Minister, and good evening to the officials who are with you.

We can speak in French, Mr. Minister. That's interesting.

I'd like you to speak about a matter that directly concerns the Treasury Board.

We know that the Treasury Board approves funding for new programs like the funds for the WE Charity. The secretariat's "Guidance for Drafters of Treasury Board Submissions" document states in black and white that submissions must contain: "Where official languages implications are foreseen, an Official Languages Appendix is required to demonstrate compliance with" applicable statutes and regulations. It goes on to say, "In all circumstances, you must conduct an Official Languages Impact Analysis."

When I asked the question last week, you did not have the answer. Can you or one of your officials tell me whether this was done for the WE Charity?

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you very much, Mr. Paul-Hus.

You're right in saying that it's always very interesting for us to be able speak to one another in French, particularly as we are neighbours in Quebec City.

I would like to briefly mention two things about this matter, and then turn it over to Ms. Owens, who can give you further details.

First, the Treasury Board Secretariat deemed that the minister responsible for this file had all the required powers. Second, it was determined that the transfer payments policy was applicable to all transfer programs, including this one.

I will now ask Ms. Owens to provide you with more details.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Well, I'd like to continue with you, Minister.

You're telling me that the WE Charity was a new program. There were $42 million for the Kielburger brothers. A total of $900 million had been contributed across the country. You're telling me that there was no need for an official languages impact assessment for this. That's what you're saying?

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

No. What I said was that senior Treasury Board Secretariat officials deemed that the minister concerned already had the powers she needed and that she could do the work in compliance with all Treasury Board policies.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

The answer to the final question of whether this was done or not would appear to be no.

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

I will ask Ms. Owens about the application of the transfer payments policy.

[Kathleen Owens, Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Absolutely.

Thank you, Minister, and thank you, Mr. Chair.

In the case of the WE contribution, ESDC officials did consult TBS to determine whether the Canada student grant program could be delivered under the minister's existing authorities, or whether a Treasury Board authority were required. In this case, we determined that it was under the minister's authority; therefore, the program and the contribution agreement never came to the Treasury Board. The Treasury Board had no role, but as the minister indicated, under the transfer of payment policy, it's the responsibility of the deputy head of the department to make sure that all official languages provisions of the act are being respected.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

In short, in Minister Qualtrough's office, it was determined that it was not necessary to do an official languages impact analysis for the WE Charity.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. We can't hear what Mr. Paul-Hus is saying. I can't hear anything, neither the interpretation nor the French.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I was able to hear everything, Ms. Vignola.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Me too.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Can everyone hear me?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Yes, we can hear you, Mr. Paul-Hus.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay. Everything seems to be working now.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

All right. I'll start over. I was at 3 minutes and 28 seconds.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you. I paused you when this came about, so go ahead.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I will repeat my question for Ms. Owens.

Can you confirm to me that Minister Qualtrough determined that it wasn't necessary to do an official languages impact analysis for the WE Charity?

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

Ms. Owens, could you explain the work that the department of Ms. Chagger was in charge of? In fact, it was the Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth who was in charge of this file, given her authority.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Go ahead, Ms. Owens.

[Kathleen Owens]

Minister Chagger's officials contacted the Treasury Board Secretariat to determine if the program could be delivered within the existing authorities. We determined that that was in fact the case, so the initiative never came forward to the Treasury Board. It would be up to the department to make sure that the Official Languages Act is being respected in the delivery of the program [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

That can't be right. Minister Duclos said that the minister had considered that she had the required authority. Now Ms. Owens just said that the Treasury Board Secretariat had been asked. That's really not very clear.

I don't have much speaking time left, so I'll continue, but we haven't heard the last of this matter, Minister.

I will now comment on the budget.

In your statement, you mentioned a budget for vaccines. I would like to understand. There are $3.8 billion for vaccine development and medical research, but there is no way of knowing where in Canada this money will go, nor what the contract amounts will be.

The Americans created the Operation Warp Speed partnership. In the United States, the largest capitalist country in the world, everything is there in black and white. The information is available and we know what's going on.

Why, here in Canada, are you asking us to adopt $3.8 billion in appropriations with our eyes shut, without knowing any of the details?