Government Operations Committee on June 18th, 2026

[Doug Ettinger]

I hear you, and we'll provide you with the total numbers.

What I'm saying here is that these are important people who are working on the accommodation program for CMBs. These are valuable people who are working throughout the organization, right from the front lines on through.

That's the only program we have, so it's not an executive program per se. It is a program that runs through the organization. Administrators and assistants are part of it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Martin, go ahead, please.

[Danielle Martin, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you.

I want to pick up on the question of the union and your workers because my understanding is that Canada Post is looking at some pretty high employee turnover in the not-too-distant future, with a very large proportion, almost half, of your workforce being within 10 years of retirement.

These are good jobs. They're good jobs for Canadians. I have certainly seen, in my riding and in my former practice as a family physician, that to have a job with Canada Post was to have some security, a decent wage and some protections. The same can't always be said of some of the competitor organizations. In urban environments, there are lots of folks for whom these jobs are really important.

How does this new negotiated settlement with CUPW put Canada Post in a position to attract and retain workers compared with the competition in this environment?

[Doug Ettinger]

That's a great question.

I'll say that it's been a challenge. We've been in the media; we've been out there, and we've been very transparent over the last couple of years about our challenges. For some people, that's hard to take, so we've had a higher than normal turnover. A lot of the people who are leaving are saying that it's because the compensation and the benefits aren't at the level of other Crown corporations and government departments.

As I mentioned earlier, we have a defined contribution pension that we take the risk on, and that's what I'm on. We don't have any guaranteed pensions here. We've taken those costs out. We've taken 10% of the management, and we've committed to the minister that we're going to continue to look at all layers.

One thing with CUPW is that those members still have job security in that agreement, so we're not.... A number that was presented in the media was 30,000. What we meant to say, and what we said, I think, was that up to 30,000 people will be eligible for retirement over the next 10 years. We're going to use attrition and leverage attrition so that people will leave with their retirement benefits and so on, but we might not replace them all. That's really what we're doing here.

[Danielle Martin, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Right, but I think from our perspective, on all sides of the House, we're concerned about affordability and about ensuring that Canadians can make ends meet. One of the most important ways we can do that is to ensure that people are employed in good work with decent compensation and good benefits so that they can make ends meet. I salute you for reaching that negotiated settlement. I think it's really important for Canadians.

I represent the urban riding of University—Rosedale. It's in the heart of downtown Toronto. We've had a lot of focus, and understandably so, on rural communities this morning, but what people in urban communities are hearing you say is you will be doing your best to boost services in rural communities at the expense of the urban environment. Particularly in multicultural communities like mine, where people often are newcomers speaking different languages, trying to navigate government forms, etc., the post office has been a safe place to go to ask the kinds of questions that people may need to ask.

Can you talk a little bit about your perspective on maintaining market share in the urban environment and on providing good, solid and culturally appropriate services in urban communities like my own?

[Doug Ettinger]

Thank you for that question. I'm very sensitive to that. When I say “urban”, I say that because we have dealer post offices that are very prolific in primarily urban areas. In some cases, we'll have a corporate store that we run, which would be unionized, and we'll have a Shoppers Drug Mart right next door to it. You can literally throw a baseball from one to the other. We have quite a bit of that in some of the urban areas. Some of these urban areas used to be rural. We have some that used to be designated as rural, but now they're very much suburban and urban.

It's not that we want to rip it apart, because we don't, but we want to get some rebalancing in the system. Our goal, which we will commit to, is to maintain the service and maintain the community flavour that's out there in different ethnic communities, where they really rely on the post. A lot of those smaller communities use some of our money transfer services to send money outside of Canada. We do $2 billion a year in transactions on that level. We very much want to continue that.

[Danielle Martin, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

That's great. I'd encourage you, if your survey doesn't already do so, to think about how you might reach out to those communities where scanning a bar code or answering a survey in French or English might not be easy for people. In fact, the ways that people use the post office in urban environments are different and need to be included in the broader transformation plan.

I would suggest that you take this into consideration, as I'm sure you are, in the accommodation program as well. We often think about accommodation in terms of folks who live in an environment where they can't travel a long distance to get to a post office or whatever, but we have lots of older people in my community who are living in vertical towers in naturally occurring retirement communities where getting out of the house is an infrequent thing. Certainly, during the pandemic and our vaccine response, we had to think a lot about how to reach those folks.

Really, taking into account the urban underserved population is important. If you have anything to add with regard to how you're thinking about that, I'd be delighted to hear it.

[Doug Ettinger]

No, but it's a—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I have to interrupt. You've gone about two minutes past.

[Doug Ettinger]

I'm sorry.

[Danielle Martin, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I'm sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for your accommodation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Perhaps you can provide the answer in writing.

We'll go to Madam Gaudreau, please.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

From what I understand, the partners and communities were not consulted directly, apart from the survey and other things.

Is there a plan on the minister's desk?

Where is it headed?

Are the outlines of the plan on the minister's desk?

[Doug Ettinger]

Yes. We submitted our plan to the minister last November. They have the whole plan, but they've been asking lots of questions since then. We've been clarifying things. They have the full plan. They've had the full plan since last November.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

We've talked a lot today about community mailboxes. People are watching to see what will happen, as we all are. However, there are also post offices.

Let me give you an example. In the municipality where I live, Lac-des-Écorces, there are two post offices a few kilometres apart. You mentioned that.

Are you going to consult people? Everyone is aware of the issue related to Canada Post.

What is the plan for the offices that will eventually be vacant?

People expect to be consulted. They want to be. We obviously want to make sure there will be no service disruption. People don't like to be left in the dark. They say that they've paid their taxes and have the right to know what's going on.

What do you say to those people?

[Doug Ettinger]

I answer saying that rightfully so, they should be asking these questions, so I have no issue with that whatsoever.

As I said before, as soon as we get approval to move forward, we'll make that public immediately. We will move to consult with the mayors of the small towns and the larger towns. We'll make sure that they have a binder that shows them the process, the next steps, the feedback we're looking for and what gaps there are.

We're fully committed to that. I know I've said it several times, but we are. We want to do this right for Canadians. We can't afford to get this wrong. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to do it right, and we don't want to leave communities behind that can't afford to be left behind.

On the CMB side, Alex may have an example—it's more on community mailboxes, but it's a good example—about Sept-Îles and other areas around there, if we have the time. We may not, but Alex can add to that.

[Alexandre Brisson, Chief Operating Officer, Canada Post Corporation]

Thank you for the opportunity.

In part, let me give you an example of why we're excited about the transformation. When we say it's not cutting back service, but actually supporting our service, I think we have a prime example.

I'll use Sept-Îles and Côte-Nord in Quebec. Service has been a challenge in Sept-Îles for quite some time, and I'm sure you can relate to that. In part, labour shortage is a big challenge in Sept-Îles, Côte-Nord and the rural places. It's also a tough job. We're asking our letter carriers to do foot routes. They walk day after day. Winter is quite long in Sept-Îles, and they're always on foot, so that's 20, 25 or 30 kilometres of walking every day.

As we're transforming, we're looking at our activities and streamlining the way we work, which allows us to release some of our assets. Releasing assets means I'm now able to deploy assets to go and support Sept-Îles, for example, where we can motorize the routes. The combination of motorization and the implementation of CMBs means we're more productive in Sept-Îles. We're going to have fewer routes and we can better utilize the people who are there. The net impact of redeploying our resources is going to be better service in Sept-Îles. That matters a lot, and that's what we're about. That's a big part of our mandate.

All of these ways we're finding now through transformation to go and support a rural service is very powerful to me. I can talk about Sept-Îles. I can talk about Port-Cartier. I can talk about Amos—

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

In the Îles de la Madeleine, people receive their winter boots via Canada Post. So they are very concerned.

[Alexandre Brisson]

Right. I think there's something very positive for us there. The more we look at the way we work, the more we're able to rebalance our assets, and you're going to see a better service in the rural world.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

From what I understand, there are some trust issues. I hope that today's meeting will help our constituents and municipalities regain confidence in the Crown corporation. We're talking about binders and consultations. Using QR codes and conducting a survey is not enough.

It's not that we don't want to hear from you, but it's not normal to have to invite you here to get the straight goods, knowing that there's already a lot of information on the minister's desk and that the information we have is insufficient.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

We'll go to Mr. Gill, and then we'll go to Mr. Danko, and we'll finish up with Madam Gaudreau.

Mr. Gill, go ahead, please.

[Harb Gill, Conservative, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Ettinger, the last time you were here, we talked a bit about organized crime and how it's impacting the mail system.

Can you provide to us in writing how many investigators are working to secure the system, the number of parcels that were intercepted for criminal activity in the past five years and the types of offences? Do you have the necessary legislative tools and the wherewithal to combat organized crime using our mail system?

[Doug Ettinger]

Those are great questions. I'll try to answer all of them in a row.

First of all, we have 80 postal inspectors across Canada. They're highly trained, but most importantly, they work closely with the RCMP, all of the provincial police forces, CSIS, etc. They have the ability, if they see a parcel that looks suspicious, to remove it and inspect it, and then if it contains an illegal substance or non-mailable matter, as we call it, they turn it over to the police right away. Last year, they intercepted, I think, around 10,000 of them, for a rough total street value of $10 million.

It's a very complex area. We're very sensitive to organized crime, and it gets better all the time, unfortunately. It's putting pressure on us—there's no question about it—but we do a lot of stuff in concert with the RCMP, like I said, and other police forces, so we're not doing it on our own. It's something that we're committed to.

[Harb Gill, Conservative, Windsor West, ON]

Is the CBSA involved with you as well?

[Doug Ettinger]

Yes, 100%. I should have mentioned them. We have regular meetings in person with CBSA. We work very closely with them, particularly at border locations, obviously, where they're right in our facilities, in fact.