Evidence of meeting #55 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was opposition.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Anne Lawson  General Counsel and Senior Director, Elections Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Lauzon
Andre Barnes  Committee Researcher
David Groves  Analyst, Library of Parliament

6 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Yes, today.

They could ask how often we have voted with another party, if we have dissented from our party, and if we have been independent thinkers. They could say that they will rate us based on whether we had ridiculous office expenses, which I hope to never have.

They are the true judges of whether we have done the job we were sent here to do, and that may change from constituency to constituency. There may be constituencies in Newfoundland or the Maritimes, in Ontario or Quebec, or on Montreal's south shore, where there are very specific infrastructure projects they expect to have, and they want them—

6 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

And Labrador.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Yes, and Labrador. Forgive me. I somehow knew that was coming, and I appreciate the correction.

6 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

We have the bridge and now we want the electric train.

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

We have a short break here and, as you know, this morning we mentioned the new members who were at committee. This is a team affair for all parties.

This afternoon, we have with us Robert Sopuck and Gérard Deltell. We also have with us Ali Ehsassi, Alexandra Mendès, Ron McKinnon, and Robert-Falcon Ouellette.

Thanks to all of you for joining us. You'll find that this committee is very erudite. You'll learn a lot from the interventions.

Mr. Kmiec, continue.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

That broke up my thoughts. I think I might have to start from the beginning now—

6 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

6 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

—but I have more articles I want to refer to, so don't worry. I won't do that.

Again, I think a great thing about our democracy is that constituents can decide what we'll be rated on. If they so choose, they can also decide whether we have passed enough legislation, if that is the metric they want to use. We could say that we've passed 50 laws. I have never heard constituents ask that though, how many laws we passed last year or how many bills we passed. As for the efficiency argument for changing the Standing Orders to speed things up, I don't think it flies with a lot of Canadians.

March 21st, 2017 / 6 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

On a point of order, Mr. Chair—

6 p.m.

A voice

Oh, that glass shattered.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

It's obviously a very profound point of order. I have that aura sometimes.

I'm just wondering what the speakers order is.

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

After this short speech, we have Mr. Simms, Mr. Christopherson, Mr. Graham, Mr. Reid, Mr. Richards, and Mr. Nater, who is not here at the moment.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

I appreciate that. Thank you.

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Mr. Kmiec, you can continue.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Let the record show that I did not smash any glass out of frustration or anything. That wasn't me.

As I was saying, the argument about the amount of legislation passed doesn't really count.

There's one thing that I'll mention now and again a little later. Actually, I'll do it now and just segue into this, because it deals with private members' business again. It's an observation about private members' business, because there has been talk about doing more of it differently.

I've made a few suggestions that could be considered by the committee, but again, I just don't think there is enough time to do it, and I would not want to impose it upon parliamentarians.

I think we all jealously guard that one slot we get to propose a private member's bill or a private member's motion for debate. I think we all jealously protect it because that is our one opportunity. Some of us may be here only once—or twice, if we're fortunate—and if you're only here once, that could be your one great contribution to Canada: to have the debate and to know, win or lose the vote, that in these halls people debated your idea. Wherever you got it from—your constituents, your faith-based community, whatever it is—it will be debated here. All of us hope for that one moment when we can get that done.

I've taken advantage quite often of Standing Order 86(2) on co-seconding, and I'll read it out just so we understand which one I'm talking about:

Notwithstanding the usual practices of the House, not more than twenty Members may jointly second an item under Private Members' Business and may indicate their desire to second any motion in conjunction with the Member in whose name it first appeared on the Notice Paper, by so indicating, in writing to the Clerk of the House, at any time prior to the item being proposed.

That is, prior to it being debated.

Why can't we use this list to prioritize private members' bills? If I propose a private member's motion for which I can get a lot of support from other members, could we not find a way to make it a priority, as opposed to simply using the lottery system? It's a proposal, but it would have to be substantively considered at committee.

Private members' business could be its own study. I think you would have a great deal of interest from parliamentarians in how the government and the House leadership of the different caucuses treat our private members' business. As I said, we all guard it jealously. We get one chance. We can table as much of it as we want. I have tabled two motions already, M-93 and M-72, on issues that I care about, but I know that many members haven't yet taken advantage of that opportunity to table as many extra ones as they want.

Could we also use an amended version of Standing Order 86(2) to potentially avoid a vote? If we could get all members to co-second, why would you need a vote? Couldn't you say “on division” and just continue? That's if division is even necessary. Could we look at how it's dealt with in terms of new opportunities to withdraw co-seconding? Also, how would amendments be treated?

I raise this point because, again, private members' business is often raised when we talk about amending the Standing Orders. If this committee were to proceed—

6 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

On a point of order for just a second, I was wondering if, just to give my colleague a break, I could have the floor.

Can I have the floor? I'll take a few minutes. That's all. I just want clarification.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Under unanimous consent, I would agree to it, yes.

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Okay.

6 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

6 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

There have been a couple times that you've mentioned this. I'm speaking next and I was going to address it then, but I thought I'd do this first because I don't know if I'll get a chance afterwards to answer.

The member has talked about “on division”. We have a vote and it is accepted, but members will yell “On division” and therefore it's recognized that not everybody in the room agrees with what is being passed.

Then there is also the idea of accountability. I don't know what he's suggesting and I'm not saying he's wrong, but is he suggesting that more votes should go that way? If you want to be accountable....

I know that on some of the most important stuff you'd want to have a registered, recorded vote—I get that part—but important to whom? We have large constituencies, and I can think of some instances where it may not be important to them.

I see Mr. Sopuck in the room. It was you, sir, who had the heritage bill. Is that correct?

6 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

No.

6 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

No? It wasn't you? Okay. Well, you were obviously a big supporter of it.

It was a heritage bill, a hunting rights and hunting heritage bill. Forgive me, because I just massacred the title, but nevertheless, you know what I mean. It was a heritage bill about hunting rights and so on and so forth, and—

6 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

It was Rick Norlock's.

6 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Rick Norlock had the bill. Thank you very much. I should mention his name because he worked so hard to get it through.

I voted for it, and that was noticed in my riding, but I don't know if every riding has the same sort of enthusiasm. I don't mean to put a divide into rural and urban, but I'm trying to flesh out an idea here, which is that it depends on who it's important to. I would suspect that we would want all votes to be recorded, which we probably could do if there were electronic voting.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll throw this back to Mr. Kmiec for comment. I just thought that it was a very interesting issue.

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Go ahead, Mr. Kmiec.