Human Resources Committee on June 18th, 2026

[The Chair (Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Good morning.

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 44 of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Pursuant to the motion adopted on Monday, May 4, 2026, the committee is meeting on homelessness in Canada.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

Before we begin, I'll note that all those participating have the option of choosing to participate in the official language of their choice. For those in the room, please select the channel that gives you that option. Make sure you're on the right one. If you're appearing virtually, please click on the globe icon at the bottom of your Surface and choose the official language you wish to participate in.

The clerk has advised me that those appearing virtually have been sound-tested, and the sound quality allows for the required interpretation in both official languages.

Please, if you could, put your devices on silence mode, and please avoid tapping the microphone boom for the protection of our interpreters. As well, wait until I address you by name, and please direct all questions or inquiries through me or the clerk.

Today, for the first panel on homelessness, I would like to welcome our witnesses. From the Intentional Community Consortium, appearing virtually, we have Gary Gladstone. From Réseau d'aide aux personnes seules et itinérantes de Montréal, we have Annie Savage, director. Welcome. From the Safe Haven Foundation of Canada, we have Krystyna Lloyd, chief executive officer.

Each witness will have five minutes for their opening statements. When you're at five, I will say thank you and will ask you to conclude as soon as possible.

We will begin with Mr. Gladstone.

Mr. Gladstone, you have five minutes for your opening statement.

[Gary Gladstone, Chair, Intentional Community Consortium]

Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to appear today—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Gladstone, wait a moment.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Sorry, Mr. Chair, but the French interpretation isn't coming through.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Excuse me for a moment, Mr. Gladstone, but there is an issue with interpretation.

Mr. Gladstone, if you could, start from the top, please.

[Gary Gladstone]

Thank you very much.

Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to appear today. I'm sorry I can't be there in person.

My name is Gary Gladstone. I am chair of the Intentional Community Consortium, or ICC. The ICC is a national coalition of more than 80 non-profit organizations working to expand affordable, accessible and supportive housing for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities across Canada. I am also the lead on stakeholder relations for Reena, one of Ontario's largest developmental service organizations.

Today I would like to make a simple point: Canada cannot solve homelessness without addressing the housing needs of people with developmental disabilities. For years, ICC and our members have advocated that people with developmental disabilities must remain a distinct priority within federal housing policy.

Recent research now demonstrates why. A major Ontario study led by Dr. Sylvain Roy examined more than 2,000 individuals in shelters and found that developmental disabilities are significantly overrepresented and frequently hidden within the homelessness system. The most defensible estimate is that between 13% and 15% of shelter residents have a developmental disability, with prevalence potentially as high as 25%. The study also found that approximately 80% of these individuals experience chronic homelessness. Many have never been properly identified. Many are disconnected from developmental services. Many are living in shelters because there's simply nowhere else for them to go.

What is particularly important for this committee to understand is that this is not simply an affordability issue. The research found that approximately 60% of individuals with developmental disabilities in shelters require high-intensity housing supports. Many are unable to successfully maintain housing without assistance in navigating daily living, finances, appointments, health care and community supports. The problem is not simply a lack of housing; it is a lack of the right housing. The report concludes that the issue is not a lack of need. It is a lack of identification, coordination and appropriate housing pathways.

This confirms what our sector has known for years: Homelessness for many individuals with developmental disabilities is not primarily an affordability problem; it is a supportability problem. People are being placed into housing systems that assume a level of independence that they do not have. The research found that nearly 60% of individuals with developmental disabilities in shelters require high-intensity housing supports. Without supportive housing, many cycle repeatedly through shelters, hospitals, crisis services, emergency rooms, policing interactions and inappropriate institutional settings.

The federal government recognized this reality under the original national housing strategy, following advocacy by ICC and others, by identifying people with developmental disabilities as a priority population and committing to 2,400 housing units. Unfortunately, fewer than 900 of these units have been delivered. As Canada develops the national housing strategy 2.0, this population must not disappear from federal priorities.

ICC is recommending five actions.

First, people with developmental disabilities must remain an explicit population within the national housing strategy 2.0, with a commitment to create, preserve or acquire at least 3,000 additional affordable, accessible and supportive homes by 2031.

Second, the federal government should establish a dedicated funding stream of at least $1 billion over five years for supportive housing serving this population.

Third, Build Canada Homes and future housing programs should support portfolio-based delivery models through organizations such as ICC that can aggregate projects and help smaller agencies succeed.

Fourth, federally funded supportive housing should incorporate appropriate care occupancy, B3 fire code, and universal accessibility standards from the outset.

Fifth, housing benefits and long-term operating supports must be expanded to ensure affordability and sustainability.

The solution to homelessness is not simply more housing; it is the right housing. Across Canada, ICC members are already building that housing. The Lou Fruitman Reena Residence, the Frankfort Family Reena Residence and projects being developed across the country by ICC members such as KW Habilitation demonstrate that supportive, inclusive and intentional community models work.

The projects exist. The expertise exists. The partnerships exist. What is needed now is a federal commitment to ensure that people with developmental disabilities are fully included in Canada's homelessness and housing strategies. If one in every six to eight shelter residents has a developmental disability, then reducing homelessness requires addressing developmental disability housing.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Gladstone.

Ms. Savage, please go ahead. You have five minutes.

[Annie Savage, Director, Réseau d'aide aux personnes seules et itinérantes de Montréal]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to participate in your study.

My name is Annie Savage. I am here on behalf of Réseau d'aide aux personnes seules et itinérantes de Montréal, or RAPSIM for short. We are an umbrella organization that brings together 99 agencies working to prevent and reduce homelessness in Montreal.

RAPSIM's main message today is simple: The fight against homelessness can't be reduced to a housing strategy. It requires a comprehensive response, one that addresses housing, social determinants, community care and stable community-based intervention all at the same time.

The federal government must significantly increase its homelessness investments. Further to the Reaching Home call for proposals for 2026‑28 funding, more than 204 high-priority projects in Montreal, totalling over $304 million, were submitted for consideration. The funding requested was nearly four times what was available. Just 69 projects were renewed and funded. Because of this underfunding, supports were cut, and the toll on the ground is significant. Homelessness groups need funding agreements that cover at least five years, so they can improve services and plan for the future. What's more, that funding needs to be indexed annually.

The federal government needs to take a broader approach to prevention, one that addresses the full range of social determinants. Pathways to homelessness are seldom the result of a single event. Poverty, health problems, housing loss, violence, social isolation and precarious immigration status all play a role. Preventing homelessness and addressing its impacts are not competing interests. The government mustn't pit those investments against one another. Investments in both are necessary and complementary.

Our third point concerns housing. RAPSIM advocates for the right to housing, a crucial part of a real alternative to living on the street. However, community-based initiatives are just as necessary to reach people who still don't have access to housing, aren't able to access immediate housing or are at risk of losing their housing. Pathways into stable housing aren't linear. Investments in housing and community services must continue in tandem, so that those living on the street have a way out, and the necessary supports to keep them from living there permanently or going back.

The federal government has an important role to play in supporting the development of integrated community-based care and better alignment between homelessness, mental health, addiction, housing and immigration supports. People experiencing homelessness are dealing with multiple challenges at the same time. Often, they are coping with the consequences of complex trauma and repeat violence before and while being unhoused. These experiences contribute to declining health and make it harder for people to overcome homelessness permanently when care is not responsive to their needs.

Lastly, I want to draw the committee's attention to the need for emergency support. Last winter in Montreal, more than 900 temporary emergency spaces had to be added to keep alive those who call the street home. This necessary support requires appropriate planning and dedicated resources, separate from the funding for ongoing community-based services. The current crisis is not the result of a lack of community expertise or involvement. It is the result of an unprecedented gap between the needs on the ground and the resources available. Beyond housing, the federal government needs to address homelessness in a comprehensive way, one that provides lasting solutions tailored to communities' needs.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Savage.

Ms. Lloyd, please go ahead. You have five minutes.

[Krystyna Lloyd, Chief Executive Officer, Safe Haven Foundation of Canada]

Chair and members of the committee, hello and thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today.

While I'm here in my capacity as CEO of the Safe Haven Foundation of Canada, what I also bring with me is a unique combination of relevant professional and personal experience.

Over the course of my career, I have led community investment initiatives for one of Canada's leading energy providers. I have worked alongside indigenous communities advancing their own visions for self-determination, and I have served as a consultant supporting community initiatives at every level of government.

Equally important is my lived experience. As a young person, at the age of 16, I left an unstable home and experienced what we now describe as hidden homelessness. Eventually, I was able to access the people and resources that allowed me to reclaim my future and ultimately sit before you today with a deep understanding of the pathways that lead to homelessness, the systems that exist around it and, most importantly, the programs that prevent it.

There is no question that Canada is facing a housing and homelessness crisis. You will hear that reality reflected in the testimony of every witness you hear from today; I am certain of it, but the message I have for you today is intended to be a hopeful one, because if my words are being received as testimony, let me be your evidence that homelessness is preventable when we invest early enough.

For 30 years, the Safe Haven Foundation has been preventing homelessness among girls and young women aged 14 to 26. Our work is rooted in the internationally recognized foyer model, an approach that integrates safe housing with wellness, life skills development, education and employment coaching, all within a caring community environment.

Safe Haven is often the last program they ever need to wholly rely on. What makes our model so successful is that we intervene before homelessness takes root. That imperative comes to life through three integrated program streams.

The first is Haven's Way, where young women live in a family-style environment supported by live-in house parents, which is one of the key differentiators of our model, and begin rebuilding safety, stability, trust and confidence.

The second is Haven's Harbour, which provides bridge housing and continued support for young women interested in greater independence while they continue their education journey.

The third is Haven's Rise, the first program of its kind in Canada, which provides qualified alumni with the gift of a down payment for the purchase of a home, because what we believe is that true prevention goes beyond helping someone simply avoid homelessness today. It also empowers them to build generational stability for tomorrow.

Together, these programs create a pathway that maximizes outcomes for our youth, because we provide the time and depth of support that lead to opportunities that elevate their voices and their decision-making power. Our program is not time-bound. There are no parameters or time limits on their length of stay with us. Through the process, they begin to feel cared for and empowered, which then produces a level of kindness and empathy that they carry with them into a world that needs those qualities, especially in positions of power.

What I can tell you is that it works, and the outcomes are beautiful. They are breaking cycles and contributing to more resilient communities.

Despite the evidence that I'm sharing with you, prevention remains one of the least funded areas of Canada's homelessness response, and the need for prevention is only growing. The rising cost of living is turning unstable situations into untenable ones for at-risk youth in urban communities, while rural communities across Canada lack youth-specific shelter and housing options, leaving young people with few alternatives but to relocate to urban centres where the risks of exploitation and addiction are greater.

We are also seeing more newcomer youth navigating family and cultural tensions that can escalate very quickly into homelessness, and we are beginning to see more indigenous youth arriving at urban centres after receiving settlement payments without the relationships and supports needed to protect them from exploitation.

If there is one message I hope this committee takes away today, it is this: Invest in prevention. Invest in the educators and the professionals who can identify the early indicators of hidden homelessness. Create incentives for organizations to intervene early, with depth of care over breadth of care and no time limits, and empower proven models like Safe Haven to share resources and approaches with organizations across Canada. If we do this, I truly believe that we will finally find ourselves on the path to ending homelessness in this country.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Lloyd.

We will begin the six-minute round of questioning with Mr. Aitchison for six minutes.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses who are here.

I have a few different questions, and I'm going to start with Mr. Gladstone.

I don't think you mentioned this, Gary, in your initial comments, but in terms of housing wait-lists, can you tell us for how long persons with disabilities wind up on wait-lists? How much longer does it take to establish permanent housing for persons with disabilities than the regular population?

[Gary Gladstone]

In Ontario alone, there are over 24,000 individuals on the housing waiting list, and it takes approximately 40 years for someone with intellectual and developmental disabilities—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Hold on, Gary. We're getting background noise.

Mr. Aitchison, would you start at the top with your question for Mr. Gladstone?

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Gary, in terms of housing wait-lists for persons with disabilities, can you give us some sense of the number of people on those lists? How much longer would it take for persons with disabilities to get permanent housing than perhaps the general population?

[Gary Gladstone]

In Ontario alone, there is currently a 40-year waiting list for housing for individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities, with over 24,000 individuals currently—in Ontario alone—on the wait-list. The numbers are similar across the country.

I'll also indicate that 18.5% of households living in core housing need are led by a person with intellectual disabilities, and it's not getting better.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Can you give us a sense of how many units are needed to fill that gap? I'm sure it's not just a simple number, but could you give us a sense of how many units?

[Gary Gladstone]

Well, we would be looking for funds to have 3,000 units across the country now. That would significantly reduce...and would allow us to continue. Right now, in high-intensity and urgent situations, individuals with developmental disabilities are being warehoused in hospitals and long-term care. It's a terrible status of life for them and a terrible expense to the system.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thanks, Gary.

I'd like to move on to Ms. Savage.

I will not do this justice, unfortunately, in English or in French, but you made a statement about avoiding pitting investment in housing against the outcomes of homelessness. Have I captured that correctly?

[Annie Savage]

Pardon me, but I can't hear the interpretation.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I'll try again. During your opening remarks, you made a statement about the importance of avoiding pitting the investment in housing against the outcomes of non-housing or homelessness. I probably haven't gotten it correct, but it struck me, and I didn't entirely understand what you meant when you used the words “pitting one against the other”.

[Annie Savage]

What I mean is that the government mustn't substitute a housing policy for the comprehensive response homelessness requires. It needs to work on both fronts. Both are necessary and complementary. It is crucial that the federal government create programs that support the construction of social housing, housing that is truly affordable, so that the poorest members of society, those most often shut out of the rental market, have access to housing and stay housed.

However, given the current crisis, a lot of people are in need of shelter and ongoing support right now. Street outreach is still essential to help those who do not access housing, those who live in encampments. They need community-based care. It's important to connect with those who don't have access to housing, who can't find immediate housing, or who have lost their homes or are at risk of losing them.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you for that. That's an excellent explanation.

In your experience, is it your observation that all too often politicians, when looking for emergency solutions, don't think about the importance of wraparound supports? They just think, “Get beds. Get them off the street”, and that's the solution. Is it out of sight, out of mind?

[Annie Savage]

Actually, the needs are many right now. Long-term, medium-term and short-term supports are all needed. None of those can be overlooked.

Right now in Montreal, a wide range of measures are being used to address the extensive needs. We can't go without any of the measures or programs community agencies are providing. More and more, we're seeing a competition of sorts between prevention measures, which are necessary and effective, and measures that address the consequences of homelessness.

Naturally, we are all for addressing homelessness before it happens and working to prevent it. In fact, such efforts should not focus solely on housing loss. Efforts to prevent homelessness should focus on all the social determinants. It's equally important not to neglect measures that address the consequences of homelessness. It's not one or the other. It's both.

For example, if your basement floods, yes, you have to stop the water from coming in, but you also have to fix the crack in the foundation. You need to do both.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

That's an excellent analogy. Thank you for that.

Ms. Lloyd, I would ask you a similar question. I think your lived experience is a very powerful story. Thank you for sharing it.

Based on your observation and lived experience, would you say that all too often, politicians at all levels are inclined to get the emergency shelter bed open and not think about it much more than that?

[Krystyna Lloyd]

Yes, absolutely. This is why so many peers within the sector are so focused on...I use the words “breadth over depth”, because in order to secure funding from both government and non-government sources, the focus is on volume, the number of beds and turnover. The Safe Haven Foundation, for example, will try to adapt to that language. We talk about the way that our program—which supports youth through, on average, a two- to four-year stay—translates to bed nights.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Aitchison.

Mr. Joseph, we now go to you for six minutes.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Respectfully, Mr. Chair, I'd like to start with a few comments. First, I want to thank you for your leadership and nonpartisanship throughout the study.

I want to be clear this morning. I am disappointed. Instead of continuing to work across party lines to address the issue of homelessness, the Bloc Québécois has gone back to its partisan ways. That is very dangerous.

Do I need to remind the Bloc Québécois that it voted against the 2025 budget, against the plan to build a billion dollars in transitional housing?

The Bloc Québécois seems to be suggesting that it's going to vote in favour of increased funding for the Reaching Home program. The truth, however, is that the Bloc Québécois takes community groups for granted, just as it takes Quebeckers for granted. It doesn't like the feeling that those on the ground are more aligned with the government's approach.

The Bloc Québécois was highly partisan in the House, accusing the government of not doing anything to fight homelessness. What, then, have we been doing here during these meetings?

Do I need to remind the Bloc Québécois who suggested the study?

I'm disappointed because the Bloc Québécois is well aware that we have been working proactively on the issue of homelessness.

I'm disappointed because the Bloc Québécois is insinuating that we are doing nothing in Quebec, with July 1 around the corner, even though it knows full well that the province oversees the housing authorities that provide assistance to those looking for housing.

I want to take this opportunity to ask the Bloc Québécois to stop infringing on Quebec's jurisdiction. The Bloc Québécois member is after all a federal member of Parliament.

I'm disappointed because some of the things that have been recommended during this study could help Mr. Villeneuve's riding and even Ms. Larouche's.

I'm disappointed because the Bloc Québécois cited statistics to show that homelessness had gone up in both Mr. Lemire's and Ms. Larouche's ridings. The fact is that the rise in homelessness happened under their watch. The Bloc Québécois is just spewing nonsense. Those members have been in Parliament for more than five years, and they've done nothing about homelessness.

A former Bloc Québécois member went all over Quebec on the taxpayer's dime, under the pretense of wanting to end homelessness. That is nonsense. We mustn't accept that here.

I have a question for Ms. Savage.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

It was time.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Chair, can I have the floor, please? I don't want to be interrupted.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Yes.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Savage, are you aware that the current government has invested $1 billion in transitional housing?

What will that money do for your organization?

[Annie Savage]

Do you know I came here from Montreal to speak with the committee, and you just wasted time we could have used to provide information and tell you more about the needs in our communities?

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I'm going to stop you there, madam. We are talking about homelessness, madam—

[Annie Savage]

I don't want to answer the member's questions. I apologize, but you can give the floor to the other witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Order, please.

I would remind all members that witnesses are here to respond to questions about the study. It's members' time. As long as you're using your time for the subject of homelessness, that is your time.

Go ahead, Mr. Joseph.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'm going to continue with Ms. Savage.

I would ask Ms. Savage to answer in good faith.

Is she aware that the federal government has invested $1 billion in transitional housing?

[Annie Savage]

I'm not going to answer the question. It's a partisan question. I am here on behalf of a community organization. That's not what I want to discuss. Nor do I want to be used to serve a party's political interests.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Ms. Savage, we are here to talk about people in vulnerable situations. You are here to talk about the people you advocate for. You agree, don't you?

Are you aware that the federal government is investing $1 billion in transitional housing all over Canada, especially in Quebec?

[Annie Savage]

I'm not going to answer the question, which I consider to be partisan. That's not what I'm here for.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Are you aware or not? It has nothing to do with being partisan, Ms. Savage.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Please ask another question.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

It's clear that the witness isn't acting in good faith.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You have a minute left.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I'm going to ask Ms. Savage the same question.

Are there early indicators or warnings that would help the government provide support to those at risk sooner?

Do you have any recommendations for the Reaching Home program?

[Annie Savage]

Absolutely.

We have a lot of recommendations. We have some indicators. The counts being carried out throughout Canada and Quebec show an aggressive rise in homelessness in recent years.

We also have evidence on the causes of homelessness. We know that housing loss is one of the leading causes, and one of the reasons people lose their homes is that they aren't able—

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Savage.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you very much.

We now go to Ms. Larouche for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you to the witnesses for being with us today.

I may come back to you, Mr. Gladstone, but I really want to thank you for raising the issue of unhoused people with special needs. They too need supports to help them get off the street.

Ms. Lloyd, your story is inspiring. Your model of providing youth with a place to stay, supports, and an alternative to life on the street is wonderful. I hope I'll have time to ask you questions.

I'm going to start with you, Ms. Savage.

We can't wave a magic wand to solve the homelessness crisis. That is what I've taken away from everything the witnesses have told us since our study began.

It's a good thing that the government is working to address social, community and affordable housing through Build Canada Homes. However, July 1 is two weeks away. The City of Montreal tripled its homelessness budget, and just this morning, Quebec announced that it was putting an additional $12.5 million towards the problem.

The encampments program was simply extended for two years.

With July 1 approaching, do you think more money should have gone to the program given the growing demand?

[Annie Savage]

It's true that all three levels of government have made significant investments. Beyond investment, though, what's missing is real coordination and the ability to plan for the long term.

I'll give you an example. The funding agreements under the Reaching Home program usually cover two years. That makes it impossible for organizations to do any long-term planning and really work on things that need to be worked on.

We have agencies that got funding to build a shelter space for people, but when the agencies applied for funding to cover the services and supports those clients would need, their application was denied. It's not that it wasn't a high-priority project. It's that there wasn't enough money. That shows you the inconsistency in the investments.

We need a comprehensive vision. With five-year agreements, we could develop supports, build infrastructure, cover intervention services and form partnerships with organizations that can provide community-based health care like Doctors Without Borders. That's one of the things we could do with support for a broader approach and longer-term vision.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

You do incredible work. Truly, I've been following what you do, and it's very inspiring. You take funding that is unfortunately nowhere close to meeting the need, and you work miracles. I believe you said in your opening remarks that you need four times the amount you got to meet the demand. That's more or less the situation.

You need not only long-term certainty, but also more resources at a time when people are more in need, with July 1 coming up. As I mentioned, the City of Montreal and the Government of Quebec announced additional funding. The federal government needs to provide more funding too, because the Reaching Home program, which helps to address encampments, is very appreciated. What I gather is that you need those additional resources because the demand is four times the amount you got.

Is that correct?

[Annie Savage]

More funding is definitely needed. When it comes to Reaching Home, the program's direction isn't the biggest issue. It's mainly the level of investment, which isn't sufficient to meet the need.

Flexibility is another problem. The funding streams or categories under the program are very rigid. They don't allow for broader or integrated responses. For instance, they don't allow for coordination between community-based services and health care services.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

We mustn't forget to create a link between the network and the community groups that work with people on a daily basis. After receiving support, people often need additional care, which the network must provide.

I'd like to come back to the Reaching Home program.

Ms. Savage, our realities are different. You work in Montreal, whereas I am the member for Shefford, whose main city is Granby. The community has growing needs when it comes to homelessness.

Something I've been asking for years, which has unfortunately not yet been answered, relates to designated communities. There has been a lot of talk about the decentralization of homelessness. Granby, for example, doesn't receive the same attention because it's not a designated community.

Is that something you've heard from your colleagues elsewhere in Quebec?

Do we need to recognize more designated communities in order to meet more needs across the board?

[Annie Savage]

Absolutely.

Indigenous people are a good example. If those people had been able to find services in their community to meet their needs, they wouldn't have left their home base for Montreal and, ultimately, run up against a lack of services.

Montreal is the epicentre of homelessness, but the count clearly shows that homelessness is widespread and on the rise everywhere. Taking preventative action and investing in communities across Quebec, in all regions, is certainly one of the solutions to put forward.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I don't have much time left, but I'd like to come back to the issue of affordability.

A question sometimes arises regarding Canada Homes and housing.

Do you think we should focus more on social and community housing in order to better address the needs?

[Annie Savage]

Yes, precisely.

I'm not an expert on Canada Homes, but my understanding is that the focus is on affordable housing. From our point of view, that does not match the needs. People who are truly excluded from the rental market need access to rent that they can pay.

Community groups develop housing responses on a small scale. We have to be able to develop responses that enable us to create real living environments, to intervene and support people, and to help them find housing and keep it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Larouche.

Thank you, Madame Larouche.

Mr. Reynolds, you have five minutes, please.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much to the witnesses for coming here today. Also, thank you so much for your hard work, day in and day out, to try to make Canada a better place with fewer homeless people.

My first question is for Krystyna. You mentioned “hidden homelessness”. Can you explain that? What does that mean?

[Krystyna Lloyd]

Hidden homelessness is the experience of couch surfing. That is a good way to describe it. It's that sliver of time when youth in particular are doing everything they can to avoid being at home. That means spending extra time at a friend's house, which is how it may begin, sleeping in an extra room or on a couch, and potentially putting the need for a place to stay out on social media.

What quickly occurs is that the goodwill starts running out, the options become fewer and more dangerous, and the wrong people take notice and start to pay attention. That's when there's the greatest risk but also the greatest opportunity to intervene and provide whole-person support.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

You mentioned that you intervene at that point, or you intervene before there's homelessness. How does that work?

[Krystyna Lloyd]

It's at that point that we often step in.

Who we hear from and start to receive referrals from might be the parent of a youth whose friend is spending a whole lot of extra time at their home and has opened up and shared. We rely very heavily on educators, teachers, who can identify the early indicators of a youth returning to school wearing the same clothes or potentially sharing.

That's why when I talked about what we can do to invest more greatly in prevention, I noted education systems. In Alberta, our education system is so overwhelmed that teachers don't have the time and space anymore to pay attention to those indicators, and that's putting us at greater risk.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

My next question is for you, Mr. Gladstone. You mentioned that we need to build 3,000 homes to support people with disabilities. What other supports come with building those homes? Typically, as governments, we look just at how we've built a home, and then we walk away and say, “Good luck.” What other kinds of supports are you talking about that come with it? You mentioned high-intensity supports.

[Gary Gladstone]

Number one, you are quite correct. It's one thing to build the walls for affordability, but the supports must be in place.

For individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities, the supports are for daily living, which vary depending on the needs of the individual. They range from a few hours a week for help with banking, groceries and what have you to one-on-one, constant support to make sure that they're not harming themselves or others in their quest to gain as much independence as possible in the community.

It really depends, but the bottom line is that funding for the agencies, which is generally a provincial responsibility, needs to be there and needs to be strong for the supports.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

How can governments ensure that the funding reaches those in greatest need?

[Gary Gladstone]

There's been an ongoing conversation to make sure that provincial governments get their fair share and that they realize—which they do—that those with intellectual and developmental disabilities require their support.

Right now, what we are finding more and more is that this is the first generation with individuals with developmental disabilities aging into their senior years. They are now staying at home longer as they are aging. As their parents are aging and their caregivers are aging, it's a very big problem for them to be providing the necessary supports. That's why it's so important to make sure that appropriate housing is there with the supports.

Also, as I indicated, over 15% of those in homeless shelters have developmental disabilities, diagnosed and undiagnosed. They have nowhere to go and end up on the streets. With proper housing and then supports from the provinces, we'll be in very good shape.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

You're talking about how we need $1 billion. How do we make sure that it doesn't get lost in bureaucracy and actually does what it needs to?

[Gary Gladstone]

We do it by indicating quite clearly that those with intellectual and developmental disabilities are a targeted vulnerable community and that is where the carve-out is to go. We saw that proven effective with the beginnings of the national housing strategy 1.0.

I can guarantee you, based on my member agencies and other agencies across the country, that when we know that municipalities and the provinces have the funds for those with intellectual and developmental disabilities, we will ensure that it gets spent appropriately and properly. That is not an issue.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Reynolds.

Mr. Saini, you have five minutes.

[Gurbux Saini, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for the great work you do for all Canadians.

My question is for Krystyna.

We are here to come up with a strategy to improve the system. What part of it is working that we need to maintain and strengthen? What homelessness initiatives are having a positive impact right now, and why do you think they are succeeding?

[Krystyna Lloyd]

The biggest change that needs to occur is supporting organizations within both urban and rural centres and supporting with depth of care. That means providing support that is not time-bound, providing life skills development, providing wellness support and showing up in the same way that a family and community around a person would. That means continuing to support a youth, in particular, while they're pursuing their education and experiencing independence for the first time, likely stumbling in the way any young person may, and being there to show up, support and coach. That's when we will begin to see transformation occur and see a step into a space of being where youth then convert to contributing members of society.

If I were to point to a program or initiative that does this work, I would point to the Safe Haven Foundation. Again, it's one of the only programs that has live-in house parents. This is a key differentiator for us. This means that it is not a group home, where staff rotate in and out and clock in and out. It's not a foster home, where there's an inherent power dynamic. It is a caring family environment that shows up for youth. Again, there is no limit on the length of stay. We walk with her until she no longer needs us.

[Gurbux Saini, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Gladstone, in your statement, you said 3,000 homes are needed by 2031. Are we talking about one specific region of the country, or is this for the entire nation?

[Gary Gladstone]

This is for the entire country. The need is great across Canada, and more housing is needed with the appropriate supports. Build Canada Homes having the carve-out will help significantly.

I would also request that Build Canada Homes provides the funds to organizations such as the Intentional Community Consortium to work with their member agencies to make sure that the best possible applications come in and that they can get funding and shovels in the ground as soon as possible.

[Gurbux Saini, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you.

My next question is for Ms. Savage.

We know addiction can play a huge role in individuals becoming homeless and having difficulty accessing things like shelter or transitional housing. Can you share some of your experience in this negative cycle?

[Annie Savage]

I didn't hear the end of the question, in French.

[Gurbux Saini, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

We know addiction can play a huge role in an individual becoming homeless and having difficulty accessing things like shelter or transitional housing. Can you share some of your experience in this negative cycle?

[Annie Savage]

In fact, one of the challenges in Montreal relates to the need for shelters with a high tolerance threshold. To operate those shelters, you absolutely have to have a trained response team. We have to be able to maintain ties with people and offer services at their pace. When those conditions are met, people often take the necessary steps themselves to stop using and improve their living conditions.

There is no doubt that the precarious and ad hoc funding conditions as well as the many disruptions make it difficult to maintain that trust. Every time we request projects, we break that link. Often, we have to stop programs and hire other teams, and the work has to start all over again. Instability in living environments is one of the main challenges in adequately supporting people, particularly those who have substance use issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Savage.

Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Once again, I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today.

I'm going to continue with you, Ms. Savage, even though it's heartbreaking and I'm running out of time.

I understand what you just said. The issue of the stability of caseworkers to support people is really essential. We're talking about a homelessness intervention program. We talked about housing.

Going back to the other elements that could be worked on proactively, do you see the face of homelessness changing?

Are you seeing more women or seniors on the street?

Is it because of renovictions or the lack of a social safety net?

[Annie Savage]

I am pleased for the opening to talk about homelessness among women. It may not be as disturbing, but it is still chronic. So we have to address the issue.

In Montreal, organizations that provide shelter to women in difficulty and women's shelters reported turning away more than 40,000 people in 2025. That has been documented by the people at the Partenariat pour la prévention et la lutte à l’itinérance des femmes, or PPLIF. We are seeing more and more older women. As for the face of homelessness, I would add that more and more people who have a job are lining up to get food and a bed at night. Day centres are full of people who have been given keys, but who don't have the support to establish themselves in their living environment, to feel comfortable between four walls and to find support and community through health care.

We could also talk about youth homelessness, which we see less of in mixed resources and emergency resources. We need to welcome them into environments that are suited to their needs and realities. Les Auberges du cœur, in Quebec, is an important network that should be strengthened and adequately supported because it offers not only community housing, but also responses to the challenge of transitional housing and even permanent housing in some cases.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Larouche and Ms. Savage.

Ms. DeRidder, you have five minutes.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Before I ask a couple of questions, I'd like to put a motion on notice for the committee. It reads:

That, given that:

homelessness, addiction and mental health challenges continue to have significant impacts on individuals, families and communities across Canada;

communities across the country continue to experience rising homelessness, ongoing substance use harms and increasing pressure on frontline services;

the current approaches have not delivered the outcomes Canadians deserve;

Canadians are demanding a renewed focus on prevention, early intervention, treatment, recovery, housing stability and community reintegration, with measurable outcomes that help individuals achieve long-term health, stability and independence; and

it is important that federal investments support measurable outcomes, accountability and access to services that help Canadians achieve long-term recovery, stability and independence;

the committee report to the House its recommendation that the Government of Canada:

evaluate whether current approaches are achieving their intended outcomes and prioritize investments that demonstrate measurable results in treatment, recovery, housing stability, and long-term independence; and

administer existing federal initiatives and funding commitments in a way that prioritizes:

stronger access to treatment, recovery and mental health supports;

expanded access to stable housing options, including transitional and supportive housing where appropriate;

prevention and early interventions that reduce the risk of homelessness and substance use harms;

measurable outcomes, accountability and long-term support for individuals seeking stability, recovery and independence; and

collaboration among federal, provincial, territorial, municipal, indigenous and community partners to improve outcomes for Canadians affected by homelessness, addiction and related social challenges.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. DeRidder. You have put it on notice.

You have three minutes left of your questioning time.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Lloyd, thank you for sharing your story with the committee today. Sometimes it can be hard to come forward and share. I appreciate you so much for being here today. I'm going to start with you.

You focus a lot on upstream supports for prevention, which are incredibly important for the prevention of homelessness. In a world where you could see these supports in a very true, preventative way, what are some of the programs that you think would be important to implement? You mentioned education. Inside of that, though, where do we need to put these programs in place for prevention across Canada?

[Krystyna Lloyd]

Thank you for the question and the kind words.

Absolutely they should be within education systems. That means really supporting both teachers and educators with education, understanding and coaching for identifying those indicators. It's happening inherently, but they're not trained to do this work. Then there is investing more heavily in guidance counsellors within schools, which is where we're going to have the most success, and in child and family systems. In Alberta, we're receiving a number of referrals from children and family services because they are so overwhelmed, and they are prioritizing younger children, not youth who are experiencing this.

To define hidden homelessness more succinctly, it is the period of time when someone has lost or left their housing and before they present to systems and end up in a shelter. For girls and young women, that's when they're so much at risk for entering survival relationships and experiencing gender-based violence, so by the time they do present to systems, they have experienced very high levels of trauma that is very difficult to recover from.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Gladstone, I want to ask you a quick question.

You mentioned the need for a carve-out from Build Canada Homes for people with disabilities. I agree completely. I just learned about what true barrier-free is for those with disabilities. What portion of that do you think is required to ensure that they're supported through the Build Canada Homes program?

[Gary Gladstone]

One of my recommendations is that all housing supported by Build Canada Homes be B3 fire code-compliant, which would mean that anyone who needs assistance barrier-free can access it and everything is visitable, and where higher needs are available, that can be built in. The other issue we're having in Ontario, which is spreading across the country, is that if homes are not built to that standard and three or more individuals are supported by one agency, they're being evicted by the fire marshal.

We need better fire controls, dual stairways, larger elevators, etc. If they're built from the get-go, the extra cost is not significant. If that's something Build Canada Homes insisted on, more homes would be available for those with any type of disability, specifically developmental disabilities.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. DeRidder.

Ms. Church will conclude this round with five minutes.

[Leslie Church, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the guests. This is a very important discussion that we're having today.

Mr. Gladstone, thank you very much for your comments. I want to pick up on and give you a chance to expand on a couple of points you made that I think are very important.

I very much share the concern around the overwhelming need for supportive housing right now for people with intellectual disabilities and with a range of disabilities. I know that the ICC and Reena are doing tremendous work in that regard.

I want to ask you a bit about the point you were making about how to ensure that supportive housing projects get built. In addition to the carve-out, what are the ways in which we can support ensuring that projects such as this come forward? I've heard from other organizations that it's about things like making sure we get through the design phase so that projects are more shovel-ready, but what advice do you have for us to make sure that the supportive housing dollars we've set aside really translate into action?

[Gary Gladstone]

Thank you very much for your kind comments and for the question.

I believe that one of the best ways is to have organizations on the ground work with their member agencies to ensure that they know what they are doing. For instance, the whole raison d’être of the Intentional Community Consortium is that most of our members and developmental service agencies across the country are not in the building business, but they have no choice because there aren't appropriate properties for the individuals they support to live in, so they have become builders. Some have a tremendous background, as you indicated, such as those from Reena—thank you very much for visiting some of our properties—and some of our other members.

Building up and providing funds for the Intentional Community Consortium to bring all our members up to speed, with the sharing of information, the sharing of floor plans, etc., will enable more projects to be shovel-ready more quickly. The whole raison d’être of the ICC was the sharing of information among our agencies to make sure that everybody could benefit, not just the large ones. That would be a tremendous help.

[Leslie Church, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Let me ask you a bit about your point about standards. I know one of the discussions we're often seeing within the disability community is around how we ensure that accessible housing is built as broadly as possible. We have Accessibility Standards Canada. We have a certification from the Rick Hansen Foundation.

How should we be looking at ensuring that accessible design is being built into supportive and mixed-use housing and our whole range of housing?

[Gary Gladstone]

First of all, the Rick Hansen Foundation does incredible work, and I'm very pleased that in particular the Lou Fruitman Reena Residence and soon the Frankfort Family Reena Residence will be gold-certified by Rick Hansen. I think that is one the CMHC has been using. I also think it's important that B3 fire code compliance be a standard for anything that Build Canada Homes is looking at financing, which will increase that as well.

[Leslie Church, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Let me ask you a question about the mission of the ICC, which I know is to expand affordable housing projects for mixed-use.

Can you describe to us in concrete terms what mixed-use means? That is, in my experience, such an innovative approach to supportive housing, and it's still not well known.

[Gary Gladstone]

The intentional community is a place where everyone can live with independence and control their keys, with different people in the building supported by either different agencies or different types of rent depending on what suits the needs of our member agencies the best. The ICC is agnostic on the types of housing and supports that are there as long as there are additional supports and individuals with developmental disabilities are included.

As you are aware, in the Lou Fruitman Reena Residence in Thornhill, we have individuals supported by Reena, by March of Dimes Canada, by Safehaven for medically complex children and young adults and by YSSN for transitional youth and seniors. Many of our members have mixed-use buildings of supportive housing for those with developmental disabilities, affordable housing or friendly neighbours who help the individuals living there. It's all needed, and it all works wonderfully well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Church.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

That will conclude the first round. We'll suspend for a few moments while we transition to the second round.

We are suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Welcome back, committee members.

I'd like to welcome our new witnesses for this round.

You can participate in the official language of your choice. If you're appearing virtually, please click on the globe icon at the bottom of your screen. Choose the official language in which you wish to participate. If you're in the room, make sure you're on the right channel to participate. If there's an interruption in interpretation services, please get my attention, and we'll suspend while it is being corrected.

Please direct all questions and commentary through the chair, and wait until I recognize you before speaking.

If you have devices with you in the room, please put them on silent mode, and refrain from tapping the boom, for the protection of our interpreters.

Each presenter will have up to five minutes for an opening statement. When you're at five or a bit over, I'll say thank you and ask you to bring your comments to a conclusion.

Appearing with us now are Dr. Andrew Boozary, executive director, Gattuso Centre for Social Medicine; Jason Miles, lived experience advocate, as an individual; and Earl Thiessen, Oxford House Foundation of Canada.

Mr. Thiessen, welcome back. You were with us before and we had sound issues, so thank you for coming back.

Finally, from Zone Libre Memphrémagog, we have Sarah Vandal.

We'll begin with Mr. Miles for up to five minutes.

[Jason Miles, Lived Experience Advocate, As an Individual]

Good morning, everyone.

My name is Jason Miles. I'm here to speak about homelessness and housing in Canada. I'm also here today as someone who is now housed and more than two and a half years free from my addiction.

I know I'm one of the lucky ones. There was a time when I truly did not believe I would ever be able to say that again. I spent approximately six years homeless on the streets of Toronto, living with severe mental health struggles, physical health issues and an addiction that completely took over my life.

During that time, my life became a cycle of trying to survive. I went through repeated attempts to get help, moments of recovery that didn't last, time in and out of jail, and periods when I was actively using and unable to break free from it. I experienced multiple overdoses and serious injuries, and more than once I came very close to not waking up again. There were moments when I did not think I would make it through another night.

The hardest part is that I did not go through that alone. My family and friends went through it too. Often, people who loved me had no idea where I was or if I was even alive. Sometimes the only time they would hear anything was through a call from a hospital or from the justice system telling them where I had ended up again. Homelessness and addiction don't stay with one person. They ripple out to everyone around them.

Before all of this, my life looked completely different from the outside. I had education. I had a long-term marriage. I had children. I owned a home. I worked as a construction superintendent and delivered major infrastructure projects across Toronto, including hospitals. I had a career that on paper looked successful and stable. Nothing about my life suggested I would end up homeless.

However, what I've learned is that homelessness does not discriminate. It doesn't matter what you've achieved, what you've earned or what your life looked like before. It can happen through a combination of circumstances, timing and the moment when support is not there when you need it most.

For me, it was a divorce, it was a poorly timed car accident and it was the strain of an overwhelming workload I could no longer carry. Within a short period of time, everything collapsed. On paper, I made too much money to qualify for the supports I needed, and that gap—that space between systems—is where I fell.

From there, it took years to climb out. It took almost every part of the system at different points: hospitals, emergency care shelters, harm reduction services and treatment supports, which I accessed more than once. It took frontline workers who kept showing up for me even when I couldn't show up for myself.

Honestly, it also took luck, like moments when the right person was there at the right time. I think that's what matters. When survival and recovery depend that much on luck, something in the system is not working. I'm sitting here today because I made it through that system, and I want to use my experience to speak about what needs to change so others don't have to rely on the same level of luck that I did.

First, we need to stop treating housing, mental health and addiction as separate systems. In reality, they are happening together for most people experiencing homelessness. When systems stay siloed, people fall through the gaps between them. We need integrated, coordinated supports where housing is the foundation and not the reward for recovery.

Second, we need a clear and navigable housing system that people can actually understand and use. Right now, access is fragmented across multiple wait-lists, unclear eligibility rules and different organizations controlling different parts of the process. Even frontline workers struggle to navigate it. We need a single, transparent pathway into housing, with clear information on where housing is available, how people are prioritized and how decisions are going to be made.

Third, we need to scale supportive housing across the full spectrum of need—low, medium and high support—and need to ensure people are matched appropriately. Coming off the street is not just about a unit. It requires health care, mental health support, addiction care and ongoing stability. When people are placed in the wrong level of care, they are more likely to cycle back into crisis. We need housing that is matched to need and not availability.

Finally, we need to change the public conversation about supportive housing in this country. There is still fear and misinformation about what these homes are and who they serve, but the evidence in my lived experience is clear: Supportive housing reduces pressures on hospitals, shelters and the justice system, and it costs less than letting people remain unhoused.

We need to be honest with the public. The current system is already expensive. The question is whether we spend that money in crisis or on housing that actually works.

There was a time when I did not believe I would ever be sitting here speaking to you. I'm grateful to be here, and I'm here because I believe others deserve the same chance I was given but without needing the same level of luck. What I needed was not more effort; it was a system that didn't require luck.

Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Miles.

We'll now go to Ms. Vandal for her opening statement.

[Sarah Vandal, Executive Director, Zone Libre Memphrémagog]

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to testify today as part of your study on homelessness in Canada.

I am the executive director of Zone Libre Memphrémagog, a community-based organization located in a very vulnerable neighbourhood in Magog. Although our primary mission is addiction prevention and harm reduction, we must recognize that our living environment is an important gateway for people living with issues of addiction, mental health, housing insecurity or homelessness.

This proximity enables us to observe, every day, the close ties that exist between these various realities and to develop on-the-ground expertise based on direct support for these people. We can also foster partnerships with community, institutional and municipal partners, as well as with police forces, all while contributing to better coordination of interventions in our area.

In the Memphrémagog RCM, we have no organization whose specific mission is homelessness intervention. However, over the past several years, we have seen a significant increase in housing insecurity and homelessness, both visible and hidden. Like many rural communities, our area faces the same challenges as major urban centres: the housing crisis, addictions, mental health issues and poverty. However, we have to address them with fewer specialized resources over a larger area and often with a more limited range of services.

It was in this context that we adapted our mobile community response unit into a mobile warming centre to provide a response tailored to our more rural region. This project, supported by the federal government's unsheltered homelessness and encampments initiative, enabled us to reach out directly to the most vulnerable people in the Memphrémagog RCM.

During the period from November 2025 to March 2026, we recorded 462 visits and carried out more than 2,310 interventions with people in vulnerable situations. These interventions focused mainly on psychosocial support, as well as raising awareness about addiction and harm reduction. We have also been able to support people with their administrative, government and legal procedures, as well as with their access to health care and public programs. That has also enabled us to direct them toward specialized resources and to support them in managing complex issues related to addictions, mental health and socio-economic precarity.

Beyond the service itself, this initiative has enabled us to see first-hand the lived realities of people experiencing homelessness or those at risk of becoming homeless. It has enabled us to understand the factors that contribute to rural homelessness and the barriers that some people may face in their efforts toward housing stability.

One of the key insights we gained from this experience is that addiction, mental health, housing and homelessness are interconnected. The people we have supported were not just looking for housing or a place to warm up. Instead, they needed support to regularize their administrative situation, take legal action, secure an income, maintain housing or get support in their recovery journey.

This approach has proven particularly relevant for an area like ours, where there are fewer specialized resources and many people remain far away from traditional services. These people have little access to transportation.

However, changes to the management of funding under Canada's homelessness strategy, Reaching Home, have posed a significant challenge for our area. We have found that the realities and many needs of rural communities would have benefited from getting more consideration in the discussions surrounding these changes. Organizations that work every day with the people affected have knowledge of local challenges, and they can make significant contributions when it comes to setting priorities.

We have also observed certain situations related to the flow of information around calls for proposals and new directions for funding. In our case, we were unable to take part in the call for proposals process as we would have liked. That limited our ability to present the expertise developed over the years and the needs observed in our area.

This situation had a real impact. The end of funding led to the closure of local services that helped support people experiencing issues of addiction and vulnerability. Beyond the funding itself, it's a capacity to intervene, the trust built with people and the locally developed expertise that have been affected.

Our experience leads us to believe that increased participation of rural communities in consultation and planning mechanisms would provide a better understanding of the diversity of lived realities across the country.

Investments in infrastructure are really essential, but they benefit from being paired with local services and support that make it possible to reach people, prevent situations from deteriorating and promote access to existing resources.

In light of our experience, we have identified several promising areas for improvement.

First, it's important to better recognize rural communities' expertise in identifying needs and developing homelessness strategies.

Second, it's important to provide stable and predictable support for local services, which are instrumental in preventing homelessness, maintaining housing and supporting people with complex needs.

Third, it's important to foster regional consultation spaces that bring together urban and rural stakeholders. This makes it possible to share knowledge, gain a better understanding of everyone's specific realities and guide investments in a complementary way.

Fourth, it's important to support rural communities in developing solutions tailored to their reality, whether that means local support, supervised emergency housing, transportation to resources or local coordination of homelessness measures.

Our lived experience in the Memphrémagog RCM shows us that when a community has the necessary resources and is recognized as a full-fledged partner, it can design responses that are effective, humane and tailored to the reality on the ground.

Rural communities don't just want to be supported; they also want to actively help develop the solutions. We believe this co-operation is an opportunity to strengthen the efforts to prevent homelessness in Canada.

Thank you for listening. I am ready to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Vandal.

Dr. Boozary, go ahead for five minutes or less.

[Andrew Boozary, Executive Director, Gattuso Centre for Social Medicine, As an Individual]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the committee for this opportunity to be able to present today. I want to commend the committee for centring the voices of lived experience in the expertise of designing some of the solutions in responding to the housing crisis.

I approach this testimony as a physician who has predominantly worked with unhoused patients over the past 10 years. I'm the executive director of the Gattuso Centre for Social Medicine and a researcher at the Dalla Lana School of Public Health at the University of Toronto.

My thesis, and the thesis that I believe we have all shared and heard today, is that we need to have a more expansive view of the housing crisis as an economic, social and health crisis.

In making the argument for housing as a health crisis, I would like to point to some of the data that I believe is incredibly damning for us as a country, one of the leading OECD countries. We know that people who are chronically unhoused live half as long as the general public. That is 20, 30 or 40 birthdays and birth years that are lost. If any drug could restore 10 to 20 life years, you would think that all funders would be tripping over themselves to ensure that these solutions and treatments could reach more people.

We know that people who are unhoused are likely to be in hospital twice as long, for 15 to 16 days on average. We also know that health care costs for people who are chronically unhoused are sevenfold to eightfold higher, according to CIHI data that was just released last year.

The moral failure, though, which was just recently published by Toronto Public Health, is that the average life expectancy of women who are chronically unhoused in the city of Toronto is 36 years. This is why I and colleagues, as health workers and frontline workers, have been calling homelessness the most powerful social determinant of health, or really a thief of life years, productivity, health and well-being in this country.

I do not believe there is more powerful testimony than what we heard from Mr. Miles, but I think it underscores the view that this is not about individual failures: These have been policy decisions. As we've seen more recently, there has been a real reduction over the last 20 to 30 years in the availability of social housing, now at less than 4%. I urge the committee to read the Scotiabank report entitled “The Public Housing Dividend”, which calls for a doubling of the social housing supply in Canada.

We've heard that the wait-list to access social housing in Toronto, where I work, is eight to 10 years, so it is not sensationalist when colleagues and I call homelessness a terminal condition. Many of the patients we serve will pass away before their number is called to get into social housing.

This was the impetus for us to launch a social medicine housing model at the University Health Network, which was able to leverage a parking lot—in partnership with the federal, provincial and municipal governments and with Fred Victor as a supportive housing agency—to establish Dunn House. We really appreciate that Parliamentary Secretary Desrochers was able to visit earlier this year and was able to visit with Mr. Miles and many of the staff who have been working to provide a more comprehensive model that has health care right on site.

I am privileged to work there as a primary care physician. We have mental health and addictions treatment, psychiatry, indigenous health programming, peer workers and community health workers all wrapped around the patient and tenant in their journey.

Many of these patients have been high utilizers of the health care system. We know from some of the local data that in downtown Toronto, 234 patients can make up over 15,000 emergency department visits in one year. The preliminary results we've been able to see for 51 individuals who've been living at Dunn House over the last 12 months show a 79% reduction in hospital bed days and a 62% reduction in emergency department visits.

We're grateful that this has led to an expansion, with 54 more housing units supported by the federal government, the Province of Ontario and the city government, to ensure that more people can receive these life-saving interventions and to interrupt doom loops and what I would argue have been deaths of indifference, which have been occurring across the country.

When we look at some of the other jurisdictions across the country, we see extremely notable examples of supportive housing working, reaching people and helping people re-establish their own trajectories. Sometimes we can look at countries like Finland, which has been the poster child for a progressive way of addressing homelessness. Their rates of homelessness in the 1980s were higher than what we have seen in Canada, but over the last 10 to 20 years, they have been trying to eradicate homelessness.

Sometimes when I reference Finland, people dismiss the example by saying that it's too progressive or too socialist of a country to have as an example for us in Canada. Then I turn to another city, Houston, Texas. In the last five to 10 years, it has housed 25,000 individuals. We've seen in Toronto a complete reversal in this tale of two cities, where homelessness has doubled over the last four years.

I believe that the urgency for us to act has never been more dire. We know what the solutions are. I'd like to commend the Crown agency Build Canada Homes, which has tried to be a vehicle to see more supportive housing reach people. I believe it's an effective avenue, and we need to see more investment there to see many of the housing options reach people, as Mr. Miles spoke to, and we obviously need to see a cross-partisan, every-level-of-government approach to trying to end homelessness as a health care crisis.

When we look at Houston and some of the examples that were laid out earlier today, a large part of their success was about having the focus and political will across political parties to end homelessness and about the removal of some of the silos and barriers to try to bring the private sector, the public sector and various community health organizations all together in one room to be focused.

Thank you so much for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Mr. Thiessen, you gave your opening statement the last time you were in, so if you want to give a quick overview at this moment, that's fine.

[Earl Thiessen, Executive Director, Oxford House Foundation of Canada]

Thank you.

First off, congratulations, Jason, on your healing journey.

Thank you for this opportunity to come back and for welcoming me with the other panellists.

My name is Earl Thiessen. I am the executive director of the Oxford House Foundation. More importantly, I'm also an alumnus of our program. I'm here to provide my experience on homelessness and addiction and the effects of both. For me, this means healing.

My unresolved childhood trauma eventually led me to the streets and to being homeless for seven years. My unwillingness to face my demons and my use of alcohol and drugs as an emotional response to my childhood trauma was so powerful. The shame of being sexually abused is so intense that many men and women lose their lives to addiction or suicide, refusing to speak about it. We gain knowledge when teaching through words and actions. We heal the same way.

The first time I talked about my sexual abuse was while I was in treatment and doing my step five with a female elder. I cried for two and a half hours, telling her about my childhood trauma. I walked out of her room a different man. I had held that trauma in for 25 years.

I only told my dad about it a few years ago. I didn't want to hurt him, because as a parent, you don't want to think you weren't there to protect your child. While I was homeless, my parents said they wanted one thing for me before they left for the spirit world, which was for them to see me change my life. They got their wish. My parents are no longer with us. After starting my recovery journey and healing from my childhood trauma, I reconnected with my heritage. It played and still plays a significant part in my healing journey.

I'm going to speak about a critical gap in what we call the recovery-oriented system of care in Alberta, and that's pre-treatment housing. Through my lived experience, I created a housing model that supports people after their medical detox and while they wait to get into residential treatment. Currently, many individuals completing detox face a waiting period of several weeks to months before a residential treatment bed becomes available. Without a stable, drug-free environment during this transition, the risk of overdose and relapse is at its highest.

The problem is that returning to the street or unstable housing post-detox often results in revolving-door cycles where the progress made in withdrawal management is lost before treatment even begins. The pre-treatment recovery housing model serves as a safety net. It provides immediate stabilization following detox; a professionally supported, substance-free living environment; preparation and readiness programming for intensive residential treatment; and navigational support to ensure an individual's successful transition to their scheduled treatment date.

This model was created from my own experience. After my partner was murdered in 2007 on the streets while we were homeless, I dealt with it the only way I knew how, which was drugs and alcohol. After that, I was just defeated. I came to the conclusion that I needed help. I went into detox. I was ready. This was November 13, 2007. They gave me a treatment date of January. Panic set in, not knowing what was ahead of me, but luckily the stars aligned.

That's where the whole concept of pre-treatment housing came from. Unlike standard recovery beds, the pre-treatment model targets the highly vulnerable window between a person's decision to seek help and the date their treatment program actually begins. We measure our success by treatment retention rates. Historical tracking of structured pre-treatment environments shows that individuals in stable, substance-free housing are significantly more likely to show up for their scheduled intake date, as compared with those navigating the wait-list while unhoused or in chaotic environments.

With regard to reduced attrition, by providing immediate safety, food security and accountability, the model cuts down on the high drop-off rates common during the standard 30- to 90-day treatment wait-list. With early stabilization, residents begin adapting to a structured routine, peer accountability and basic life skills before they ever set foot into a clinical facility. This means they enter primary treatment physically stable and mentally prepared, maximizing the impact of clinical programming.

I can proudly say that the model I created is the only licensed and accredited pre-treatment housing model in North America.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Thiessen, for the very compelling testimony you gave to this committee. Thank you for stepping forward and sharing that.

We'll now begin our sixth round of questioning.

Mr. Aitchison.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank each of the witnesses in this round.

I want to say to Mr. Miles, who's here, thank you for being here. Thank you to Mr. Thiessen as well. You have both shared an incredibly powerful personal experience with us. I think that was important for us to hear. It's important that this information be central to our report to the House of Commons and that, as a federal government, we play our role in working with the other levels of government engaged in this issue.

This is one of my great frustrations with our country. We are in an incredibly decentralized system where there's lots of overlap. Homelessness happens to be one of the most glaring examples of the disconnect that exists between the lived experience of people struggling and the various layers of bureaucracy—government, policy and ideas on how to address the issue.

I want to state very clearly that I don't think this is a partisan issue. I don't think it is a Liberal, a Conservative or an NDP problem. I think there has been a generational evolution in how things have happened in this country. If anything calls for all levels of government and people of all political stripes to come together—and not just pay lip service to the incredibly powerful stories we've heard here today and throughout this study—this is it.

As you spoke about your experience, Mr. Miles—I'll ask the same question of Mr. Thiessen—you also spoke about how lucky you were. With your healing, I couldn't help but think to myself as you spoke that it really wasn't.... It was lucky that you were able to navigate a system that wasn't all that comprehensive and didn't work all that well together.

Could you speak to us a little more about the power of relationship in your healing journey—of not just being a number, getting a bed somewhere or being part of a program? What was the importance of relationship in your healing journey?

[Jason Miles]

Thanks very much for your question and comments.

Relationship plays powerfully in my own journey. In my journey from addiction and homelessness, the starting point for me and the real tipping point was that I continually found myself in and out of hospitals and jail systems. It got to a point where I really hit some low places in life, and I tried to end my own life on more than one occasion. These weren't cries for help; these were well planned out and well thought out, and there was no hesitation.

I really got lucky that my story gets to continue based on other things I couldn't account for. A frontline worker ended up saving my life the first time I tried to end it, and she shouldn't have been there at all. She knew me very well. I went into safe consumption sites all the time, and she knew who I was. The only reason she was around to save my life was that it was a Friday evening, and she'd stayed at work three hours after she was supposed to be done because she was going on vacation on Monday. She shouldn't have been in the building at all. She came out into the alleyway—and that's another thing. She never left out the back door into that alley because it's unsafe. As a young, good-looking woman, she always went out the front exit of the building into the street lights.

That's just one of many incidents. It really took a frontline worker to make me feel valued enough, not just from being put in the position to directly have to save my life but also the countless times they showed up for me. They connected with me.

When you're living in an extended period of homelessness and suffering the kinds of things we do, you really feel outside of society. We get used to people looking at us and telling us, “Get a job. What's wrong with you?” We get used to that judgment. One of the times I ended up in a hospital, I had a frontline worker who would continually come every other day, take time away from her day, bring me cigarettes and wheel me in a wheelchair outside so I could have a smoke, and that was the only person I talked to.

There were a lot of little things like that that added up over time, but without frontline workers, I wouldn't be here to speak to you guys today.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I'm officially out of time, but I'll ask the Chair for the moment to say thank you. Thank you for your resilience, and thank you for your courage to be here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Mr. Villeneuve, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here this morning.

Mr. Miles and Mr. Thiessen, I want to tell you how touched I am by your testimony this morning. I also want to tell you that your contribution is truly very important.

I realize that, deep down, we often think that we're immune to experiencing things like that. We are not. Listening to you speak, when I look at your life story, I tell myself that no one is immune to all this.

Frankly, I don't know if I would have had the courage to do what you're doing this morning. Thank you for that from the bottom of my heart.

If you were legislators, what would be the three priority measures you would put in place to try to end homelessness?

My question is for both of you. Maybe I'll start with you, Mr. Miles.

[Jason Miles]

First and foremost, we need to massively scale housing across this country. Housing needs to be delivered quickly, and it needs to be delivered without reservation. It can't be based on perceived merit, or it can't be a reward dangled at the end of making your transition through recovery.

Housing is the foundation that everything else is built on. You can't ask somebody who has experienced long-term homelessness and addictions.... You can't take away the addiction first, because the addiction is what they're using as the band-aid. Taking somebody's addiction away without them having stability and a home.... You can't fix that without taking away the reason they're using in the first place. That would be my first suggestion.

My second strong suggestion is that we need to really integrate systems together, but we need to make sure everybody is talking and that it's one voice. We have too many people and too many different agencies controlling different parts of housing lists. We have too many people who only work on their component, but the extra needed component is just one more thing out of their reach. They say, “That's not mine. That's that guy's to do.”

We really need to take the red tape out of the way, not just for the clients and the people trying to transition from homelessness but for the housing agencies working with them too. There are a lot of people who work in the field all day who have very little understanding of where they get help from certain points. If somebody like that, who's educated in the system and works within it all day, can't figure it out, then you know the system is not working.

I'm being mindful of time, so I'm going to cut it off there.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you for your contribution, Mr. Miles.

Forgive me for not addressing you, Mr. Thiessen. It's because I really want to talk to Ms. Vandal, who is from my area.

Ms. Vandal, thank you for being here with us this morning. I know that Zone Libre Memphrémagog does incredible work in our riding.

Since the pandemic, have you noticed an increase in addiction-related needs in Memphrémagog?

[Sarah Vandal]

I couldn't necessarily attribute addiction issues to a specific period, when issues were more a matter of public health. I think those issues have always existed and have not necessarily increased.

However, I think the clientele may have gotten younger. Addiction issues are going to affect a younger clientele, particularly when it comes to vaping, smoking and cannabinoids. Those are really aspects that are affecting a younger clientele.

In relation to the pandemic, I would say that the category of people with substance use disorders may be slightly younger than it was before the pandemic.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

What are the most vulnerable client profiles right now?

[Sarah Vandal]

I will obviously speak for my organization, since that's the clientele I know.

We're located right in the weavers' district, which is basically a more vulnerable neighbourhood. Our clientele really includes people of all ages. They could be people in high schools, adult schools or post-secondary institutions. We also have an aging clientele.

These days, we've also noticed that the homeless clientele is younger. Normally, a lot of older people have less access to affordable housing as they age, but now we also have a much younger clientele.

We try to work upstream in terms of prevention, but we also have to support people who have been marginalized for many years and whose situation is complex.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

I have about 45 seconds left.

How could the federal government better support the organizations that intervene before situations escalate to homelessness?

[Sarah Vandal]

Personally, I would say that working locally is really the key element, especially in our region, which is a more rural region. People don't have easy access to services. In fact, there is no public transit in the Memphremagog RCM.

We need to be able to approach people directly instead of bringing them into the resources and taking them out of their comfort zone. You have to reach out to people, offer them support and connect with public services and community organizations.

I think we should focus on people who find themselves in tougher situations.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

[Sarah Vandal]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve.

Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for joining us today.

Mr. Miles, you have experienced life on the streets first-hand, and you give a human face to what homelessness is like. The same is true for you, Mr. Thiessen. As you may have noticed, tears were shed when you told your story. Mr. Thiessen, I'm very pleased that you were able to come back and see us again, and that you are adding your voice to the reality of homelessness.

Mr. Boozary, you have dedicated your career to these people. You remind us that homelessness does not discriminate and that anyone is just one misfortune away from ending up on the streets.

For my first round of questions, I'll turn to Ms. Vandal, as we represent neighbouring regions facing similar realities. I am the MP for the riding of Shefford, whose main town is Granby, but which is surrounded by numerous rural communities.

Several points in your testimony caught my attention. You mentioned the call for proposals for the New Horizons program and the new guidelines which meant you were unable to submit an application.

Have I understood correctly?

[Sarah Vandal]

Yes, you're quite right.

In fact, at the end of the financial year ending March 31, we found ourselves in two rather incongruous situations.

Firstly, there was the end of the call for proposals for the encampment and crisis response program, which was a federal initiative. We received little information as to whether or not the funding might be carried over.

We then learnt that the Reaching Home program had been refocused on more urban areas. We were simply not informed about the call for proposals. In fact, I don't think we're the only ones in this situation. Indeed, I sit on a regional committee dealing with rural homelessness, and I know that several organizations had not been informed either. We were therefore unable to submit an application.

Memphremagog is a very large region, but we have absolutely no funding. I could also mention the Haut-Saint-François region and the town of Coaticook, which are facing similar situations.

So some projects are coming to an end, and services that we have been providing for a whole year are being abruptly cut short. There is a bit of uncertainty, if I may put it that way, about the future and the services we will be able to offer as winter approaches.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

We are part of the same region, namely the Eastern Townships. I can confirm that there is one designated community, Sherbrooke, but the surrounding areas, including Granby, are not recognized as designated communities and are therefore unable to receive their share of funding. Yet we regularly hear about rising homelessness in Granby.

We have discussed the criteria, and the minister has spoken about what will happen with the Reaching Home program after 2028.

I imagine you are recommending that the definition of “designated communities” be broadened so that we can ensure everyone in the region can benefit from projects such as those you carry out on a daily basis.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Sarah Vandal]

From what I gather from the testimonies we have heard today, I would say straight away that homelessness has a snowball effect. For example, if someone has addiction problems, this could lead to mental health issues.

We need to focus on prevention and community outreach to stop the problem we are currently facing—which is not on the same scale as that seen in major cities—from becoming increasingly serious.

In my view, we are in a situation where it is possible to put measures in place to prevent the problem from getting worse. I think it is really important to consult with rural and remote areas, given that we face a different reality and that we want to help our clients, even if there are fewer of them. There may be fewer of them, but it is just as important to take them into account.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

One interesting point is that we need to ensure funding is increased and that this is genuinely taken into account.

You mentioned a mobile unit. That is one solution. In Granby, thanks to the Coalition Impact de rue, we now have a mobile unit that travels around the area. There are also projects under way in the Rouville Regional County Municipality to enable us to reach out directly to people in Saint-Césaire and Rougemont, to find out where they stand in terms of prevention and intervention.

What have you observed thanks to your mobile unit, and what difference is it making?

[Sarah Vandal]

We already had this unit, which we were using to build links with community partners. However, when we came up with the idea of using it to travel around the area, it really helped us tackle a problem we were facing.

In our RCM, there is no organization that specifically serves people experiencing homelessness. Furthermore, the resources, which are centralized in Sherbrooke, are often at full capacity. Moreover, people in our area do not necessarily wish to relocate and completely change their lives by moving to urban centres.

This unit has therefore enabled us to cover the entire territory, which is relatively large, without necessarily disrupting the continuity of service. If we go to people, provide them with support and settle them in another urban centre, they will often return to their home area because their family is there. We know just how important social networks are. By doing this, we risk further isolating them by directing them to a temporary emergency shelter, where they have to start all over again every night.

We therefore prefer to reach out to people and really listen to their recommendations. No one knows their own situation better than someone experiencing homelessness. They are in the best position to tell us how we can help them in the most appropriate way possible.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I may come back to this during my second round of questions.

You mentioned the “quartier des tisserands” or weavers' quarter. You said there had been a change in the homeless population. It now consists of both older and younger people.

[Sarah Vandal]

Yes. We're well established in this neighbourhood, which used to be an industrial area.

Originally, our clientele consisted mainly of older people, particularly those receiving last-resort assistance.

However, in recent years, we have really noticed a shift towards a younger clientele. This may be because we have been involved in projects relating to homelessness. We now welcome a much younger group of people who use our services.

For example, now that winter is over, we are seeing every week at least three or four people under the age of 40 who come to use our services to wash, get clothes or receive food, and they do so on a regular basis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Larouche.

Mrs. Goodridge, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here.

Jason, thank you for sharing your story and for being so vulnerable here in our committee. It's incredibly important to hear the perspective of people with lived experience.

Earl, thank you so much. You're not here in the room, but I want to share with you that there were very few dry eyes in this room. A lot of kleenexes were passed out. Thank you for always being willing to share some of the hardest parts of your life to demonstrate that recovery is in fact possible.

Both of you men help make our society a better place by showing that recovery from addiction is not just something that could exist but something that does exist, and it lives every single day. I want to sincerely thank both of you for that.

Dr. Bardeesy, in hearing about what Oxford House does and their pre-treatment model, do you think that model or a model similar to it would help the people you support in Toronto?

[Andrew Boozary]

I'm sorry. I just want to make sure the question is for me. I know Karim Bardeesy well.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

It is. I'm sorry.

[Andrew Boozary]

I apologize. I didn't know if Karim was in the room. It's hard to tell from here.

Thank you for the question.

I think our sense is that there are some superb supportive housing model examples. Oxford House is one that you mentioned. I think Jason and the other witnesses spoke really powerfully to ensure that there's not an abstinence model; that there are options for people in their recovery; that people can access mental health and addictions treatment; and that they can access various supports, both social and health.

Really, to me, having more of these integrated models that ensure there are health care and social care supports right where people live has shown a lot of effectiveness in terms of the evidence base we've seen.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Earl, where exactly is your pre-treatment housing currently located? Approximately how many people are you able to serve at once?

[Earl Thiessen]

Right now our model is only in Calgary. We have four homes and 16 beds. I have to brag a bit here and say that off those 16 beds, last year 231 people went safely to residential treatment. This is what keeps popping up in my mind: If we had 160 beds or 1,600 beds across the country, could you imagine the number of people who could find healing?

I also want to state that we do OAT. It's a very unique model. There are house leads in there. I think having peer support, as many of the other panellists have stated, and immediate support is crucial. We need that. Our house leads have lived experience. Actually, most of my staff are in recovery. A few are graduates of Oxford House. It's such a revolutionary model that I think it can have a massive impact on homelessness and addiction across the country.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I've had the absolute honour of getting to tour a few of your houses and meet some spectacular people. I've had the opportunity to reconnect with them a year out, two years out and three years out, and have seen this amazing piece and how their lives have been changed as a direct result of the supportive housing you provided and the path towards recovery.

Do you have any plans or intentions to potentially expand this? It's clear that there's a need.

[Earl Thiessen]

That's a perfect question. We're actually in the process of expanding this program to Edmonton. There's a desperate need. The homelessness issue there just breaks my heart.

I've walked those streets. I've talked to people. The wait-list to get into recovery centres is one of the biggest issues. I'm just happy that the Government of Alberta has approved funding to move forward there. We're going to start with two homes. I told them that within six months they're going to need two more.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I have a few seconds left. Are you able to receive any funding from the federal government, or is all of your funding coming from provincial and municipal sources?

[Earl Thiessen]

All of our current funding is from the province. We are going to be reaching out to the federal government, because this is revolutionary for the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Goodridge.

Ms. Desrochers, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Firstly, I would like to thank the witnesses for joining us this morning, in particular Mr. Miles and Mr. Thiessen. I thank them for sharing their experiences with us.

I also want to thank my colleague, the member from Parry Sound—Muskoka, for his opening statement and his willingness to work together across parties on this key issue. I really appreciate it.

I want to turn first to Dr. Boozary. We've heard today, but also in previous meetings, about how housing is really the foundation of addressing the crisis. It's not the only thing. We talked a lot about prevention as well, and I'll come back to that. It's also about ensuring that housing meets the needs of residents where they're at.

Can you talk a bit about the role of the provinces in providing wraparound support? I know that in the case of Dunn House, it's a successful partnership, but it's not like that for all other projects that move forward.

[Andrew Boozary]

I would echo the encouragement of member of Parliament Aitchison, who was speaking to the need for all parties to address this crisis.

Look at the example in Ontario and the supportive housing piece. The supports are crucial. When we look at where some of the housing first models in the U.S. and other jurisdictions have fallen flat, it's where there are not wraparound supports—to your point.

The supportive element of housing beyond the door and room is really, in many ways, the secret sauce to a lot of the success. In terms of the Dunn House model and social medicine housing, the province has been an instrumental partner in investing in wraparound supports, both for the health care resources that are there and for the 24-7 permanent supportive housing model.

I was really encouraged to hear Mr. Flack in Ontario speak to Dunn House 2.0 as a model of supportive housing that can not only help alleviate hospital pressures, but also build infrastructure and of course ultimately, from my vantage point as a physician, drive better health outcomes.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I'll continue on this. In a previous conversation, you and I talked about the cost. The provinces have a limited amount of fiscal capacity, but there are costs of homelessness outside of the human costs—which are the most important—in terms of hospital stays, ER visits and incarceration. How can we better make the case there? Do you have data that you could share with the committee on that, or anything you want to share today on it?

[Andrew Boozary]

When we look at the health economic analysis of the benefits of housing versus some of the counterfactuals, it is over $50,000 a month to be in hospital and nearly $15,000 a month to be in the provincial jail system, which has in many ways acted as a de facto mental health system, as people can access care and support there. That has been evidenced so powerfully today. It's around $7,000 for a shelter and less than $5,000 for supportive housing.

The cost calculus is really clear. I referenced “The Public Housing Dividend”. In some of the modelling that Scotiabank and partners put forward for investing in social housing, their projections are that there would be a reduction of over 500,000 hospital bed days over the next 10 years, and 147,000 emergency department visits would be avoided.

There's a real economic argument there and, as you mentioned, the human dignity piece that we've heard about so powerfully today. From an economic and cost-effectiveness perspective, I hope that seeing the major banks and the many different partners and communities make this case for so many years has more resonance.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Boozary.

Mr. Miles, thank you again for sharing your experience and for the work you do every day in your community and with your peers as you try to support them.

You talked about the difficulty in accessing information and in figuring out where someone is on the list. What would have been helpful when you were going through this? We're trying to be better at integrating and coordinating so that people know where to find information. What could have been more helpful?

[Jason Miles]

First and foremost, we need more of every support. We need more pre-treatments, and we need more housing. The biggest struggle is that we have too many people trying to pull from the same cup, and it's empty.

Second, we really need clarity on the system. A lot of different housing developments are in the works, or have been in the past. There is always confusion over whether they're controlled by the municipality, by the building operator or by the developer, who is typically somebody else. It ends up leaving this confusion.

Somebody in the streets or somebody who is homeless is trying to work with their housing worker, and they hear about a building. They think, “Oh great. They're opening this building up. How do I get in there?” but nobody knows. Trying to find somebody who knows how to get into that building is very difficult. A lot of times, they're set up initially as “invite to apply” only. The building operator running them has their own people in mind they're trying to support. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but we need more clarity in the system for those trying to navigate it, because it really is creating chaos.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

It really brings home how complex this challenge is and that we need to put in place a genuine continuum of services, ranging from prevention through to post-shelter support, including assistance with long-term accommodation.

Once again, Mr. Miles, Mr. Boozary and Mr. Thiessen, thank you for joining us.

We have a rather unique situation in Quebec. I shall therefore turn once more to Ms. Vandal.

We are less than two weeks away from July 1, and we know that in Quebec, this is a critical time for housing. Some people find themselves homeless or lose their homes.

What is the situation, with two weeks to go until July 1?

[Sarah Vandal]

We recently took part in a consultation specifically on July 1, and we realized that it was already a bit late to tackle the problem.

Generally speaking, when it comes to people at risk of homelessness—particularly those who might find themselves without a lease—housing authorities often already have measures in place to enable access to services and to provide last-resort assistance to those at risk of homelessness.

For us, the challenge lies more with people who are already at risk of homelessness. They often do not meet the criteria for these programs. Take, for example, someone living with mental health issues or substance abuse problems, or someone experiencing chronic homelessness. Often, these people do not fall within the eligible client groups. We cannot put them on waiting lists and, in the Memphremagog region, we cannot support them in this way.

For other people at risk, however, we are able to put in place rent supplement measures and things like that. We can also support the individual and work in collaboration with providers of more affordable housing.

In my view, there are really two types of service users. On the one hand, there are those at risk of homelessness, for whom we already have certain tools in place and who often have a slightly stronger support network. On the other hand, there are those who are already experiencing a relatively chronic situation of homelessness.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I have barely 30 seconds left. I'll finish with a suggestion for a preventative measure.

You're talking about young people, you're talking about older people. Should income support for older people and vulnerable individuals be increased to prevent homelessness?

As we can see, many are affected by rent increases or renovictions.

Should we rethink the support we provide at an earlier stage?

[Sarah Vandal]

Actually, in my view, the support we should be providing is more holistic. It is not necessarily a good idea to simply increase a person's benefits. Even if people receive additional financial support, they will not necessarily receive more support when it comes to their mental health, their risk of homelessness and so on.

In my view, the focus should instead be on support and the resources that can help, on the work that can be more complementary.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Larouche.

We will go to Madame DeRidder for five minutes, please.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair, for extending the time to speak.

I want to start by thanking Mr. Miles and Mr. Thiessen. Thank you so much, gentlemen, for being here and sharing your stories. From one recovered addict to another, I know how hard it can be to come forward, but it's important to do so so that we can change lives in Canada.

We've heard so much today about the importance of all parties coming together and all levels of government coming together and of ensuring that people with lived experience are part of the solution. We've heard great success stories today, such as Dr. Boozary and Mr. Miles working together in Toronto and having amazing success by ensuring that lived experience is part of this.

Mr. Thiessen, your program is phenomenal as well.

I'd like to turn the conversation a bit towards hope and to those who might be wanting to take the first step into recovery.

Mr. Miles, you spoke about how you didn't walk that journey alone; your family walked that journey with you. A stopping point for me in the beginning was guilt because of the decisions I had made and the effect they had on my family. What would you say to someone wanting to take that first step about your family and the fact that they're still there?

[Jason Miles]

That's a difficult component for sure. I carried a lot of shame and guilt, certainly, for a lot of the things I had done. The types of things I did to survive and to feed my addiction were things I never thought I'd be capable of doing. A lot of people got hurt. I did a lot of theft and that kind of thing. You really feel as if once you've gotten to that point, there's no coming back for you now. I saw all the time I spent in jail and all the things I did. You get this view that you're not worth it anymore.

If I can instill anything in anyone, it's that if somebody like me who did all the things I did can find their way back again and not just live a life that's sober but live a meaningful one—I'm involved in my community and make life better for other people—there's hope for everyone. Just keep trying. You're worth it.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you so much.

Mr. Thiessen, you spoke about how, really, healing sucks. I know healing sucks. You've cried for two hours. I've cried until my body ached to get through that healing. However, on the other side of that healing is a big, beautiful, happy, healed and healthy life.

Although it sucks, what would you say to someone so they start their journey towards healing?

[Earl Thiessen]

It is a difficult process to begin with. I love the word “hope”. You take a chance on yourself. We're so hard on ourselves. Jason said it: It's about the shame and the guilt. You know this first-hand, Kelly, as well.

I fully believe that you have to speak to heal. That's where the big risk comes up. A lot of people in business say that in order to be successful, you have to take a risk. Well, in order to recover, you have to take a risk as well, but do it for yourself.

I also believe that we should meet people where they are, but let's not leave them there.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you so much for everybody's time today. It was an incredibly impactful day. Thank you for being here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame DeRidder. I must say that the world is a better place because of you stepping forward as a parliamentarian.

To conclude, we'll go to Monsieur Joseph for five minutes.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank all the members of the committee and the witnesses. I would also like to extend a special thank you to Ms. Kelly for coming to the committee to offer her support.

Thank you, Ms. Kelly.

I would also like to thank Mr. Thiessen for sharing his experiences with us. I have a question for him. It is a simple one.

In your view, Mr. Thiessen, which actions or measures have had the greatest….

Please excuse me. You have no doubt realized this already this morning. It infuriates me that homelessness is being politicized. It is not normal.

I would also like to apologize to the committee for the exchange I had with the witnesses this morning, because we cannot seek to gain political advantage at the expense of people in vulnerable situations.

I'm sorry. I got a bit carried away by my emotions. I've never experienced homelessness myself, but I know people who have, including members of the LGBTQ+ community and women who sleep with people they don't want to because they just want somewhere to sleep—because it's cold outside.

So, I think I'll hand over my speaking time to Ms. Desrochers, who deals with these issues. Please excuse me.

I can't go on.

Thank you.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Joseph.

As we can see, this is quite an emotional moment.

I would like to thank all the witnesses who have shared their experiences with us today.

I had a question for Mr. Thiessen earlier.

How can the system, at all levels, better help? We talked about prevention. Who could have caught that you were in the situation you were in when you were young? How could we have done better with that? Is it at school? Is it at the hospital? I don't know. I'm just really looking for an answer to that question.

[Earl Thiessen]

That's a very good question. I could feel Mr. Joseph's shame. I could feel my body—and I get it. I understand.

Times have changed a lot. We really need to pay attention to our children and what they're doing. Cellphones are having an even larger impact, because we didn't have them when I was a kid.

It's not even about not letting our kids and youth go unsupervised, but about knowing where they are. I had free rein. I ended up at an older gentleman's house. He fed me alcohol. The access to it was huge. I blacked out, and when I woke up, I was being sexually assaulted.

Prevention is everything. What we need, and I think it's a big part of the focus being missed, is the lived experience piece. We have something that can't be taught. Unfortunately, a lot of us have that due to the trauma we went through, but I would rather there be fewer people with lived experience in the next 10 years who had to go through what I, Jason and so many other people went through just to be able to help.

We have to break the cycle. That's what it's about. It's about breaking the cycle—lived experience, mentors, peer support, supportive housing and all of that.

It starts at school. Some of the stuff they're introducing at school I don't think is correct. It wasn't there when I was young, so why is it there now? We had it hard enough at our age.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Thiessen.

Thank you, Madame Desrochers.

Thank you, Mr. Joseph, for bringing this important study forward.

Thank you, Madame DeRidder, for sharing your experience as well.

I would ask that the committee consider providing written drafting instructions to the analysts by Friday, June 26, so they can begin working over the summer. Obviously, it's not the final part, but if the committee accepts providing written drafting instructions to the analysts on this very important study, it will be a test to see whether this study can actually move the bar on addressing this issue.

The second part, if we have agreement, is that the clerk circulated a press release announcing the winner that you chose on Monday for the Centennial Flame award. Is it the will of the committee to circulate that?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you to the committee members.

This committee has dealt with a lot of compelling issues, notably Bill C-222, which actually effected significant change. I, for one, look forward to this report being tabled in the House and to seeing that it begins addressing some of the issues that have been so well and personally put before this committee over the past period of time.

Thank you to each one of you for participating. Enjoy your constituency time. We'll see you in the fall, unless the House gets extended into next week.

Thank you to the witnesses for sharing your personal time. Without that input, we couldn't move to begin change.

With that, is it the will of the committee to adjourn?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

The meeting is adjourned.