Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 29th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I was asking you to be generous, Mr. Bevilacqua.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

This is ultimately generous, but I do want to thank the officials for appearing. I know how hard you work to bring about positive change to a system that requires positive change.

I also want to bring to your attention, so that you perhaps have a better understanding of what transpired here this morning, that if you look at the minutes of proceedings of the meeting of Thursday, October 1, 2009--that's meeting 25--you will find that the third-last point made is that beginning on October 29 the committee will undertake a study of wait times by hearing two panels of witnesses: one on family reunification and another on investors. I think that was very clear. This is in our committee minutes. They weren't drafted by Mr. Karygiannis, Ms. Mendes, Ms. Chow, or whoever else. These are our minutes, and we need to respect that. I think the officials need to be told exactly what we are studying.

I know that you're operating in good faith. I don't question what you're doing at all. Now, I'm left with the responsibility, as a member of Parliament--because I am responsible to the Parliament of Canada to get the information that is required on behalf of Canadians, whom we collectively serve here in the House of Commons--to see that the department provides a detailed analysis of what exactly is going on in these two areas, since unfortunately you were given the wrong directions as to the reasons you were appearing here today.

I think there should also be a time limitation for getting this report. We have to study this thing forthwith; therefore, the report needs to be in this committee within no more than seven sitting days. I think it's only fair, and it's a sense of justice, Mr. Chairman, because at the end of the day, in order to do our job we need to honour the commitments we make as parliamentarians.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You know, I offered a suggestion earlier. If the committee wants to reject that suggestion and keep going on these things.... These witnesses are here for questions. If you don't want to ask questions, I'm sure the government has questions. Monsieur St-Cyr has questions.

If there was a mistake made by this table, we apologize. I don't think there was, but I've offered a solution, and hopefully the three critics and the secretary will solve it.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I'm not asking for anything that is out of the ordinary. I've been a minister before, and I've instructed officials to provide information to sitting members of Parliament. That's what we do. So I think the record should show that this request has been made and that a response should be coming from the department on those two specific issues. As you know, Mr. Chairman, I'm very flexible--

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

A point of order, Mr. Dykstra.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

--but I don't think anybody should be fooling members of Parliament.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm sorry, Mr. Bevilacqua, it's a point of order.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

We have an hour here dedicated to asking officials questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Actually, you have five minutes.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

We've had repeated comments about whether or not these folks have presented in good faith. They have. I would ask, if Mr. Bevilacqua has some questions for the officials who are here, that he ask them, and if we would like to try to work through the direction that the clerk gave to the officials, if we want to work through that issue after this meeting is concluded, I'd be happy to do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

That's not a point of order.

Proceed with the clock. Do the Liberals have any more questions?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I do have a point of order on that point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

On a point of order, Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I think, Chair, you will find it also the responsibility, not only to yourselves but also to the person from the government who sits on the steering committee, to make sure that what the minutes reflected is what the departmental officials are coming forth to testify on. That responsibility lies on the parliamentary secretary.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Well, Mr. Karygiannis, as I said, if this table has made an error, I apologize for that.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Chair, it's one thing to--

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I've offered a suggestion as to how we can rectify that.

I'm going to go to Monsieur St-Cyr for questions.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to take advantage of your presence here today to ask you a question that concerns me.

When people come to their members of Parliament to ask for help, members often have a difficult time obtaining information on the status of their case. When people submit their applications, the department gives them no idea of the progress of their case. I understand it would probably be difficult for officials in the department to answer everyone who is concerned about the fact that they submitted an application months ago and have not yet received news, etc.

However, when people come to us to raise complex or worrisome cases, we try to contact your organization but it is often difficult to find out the stage the case is at.

Is there a clear policy on the assistance you can provide members of Parliament so that they can help a fellow citizen or a future citizen through the process?

[Claudette Deschênes]

I believe at the beginning of the year you were given a letter explaining how to contact the department. It included numbers and addresses. There are definitely services for members. We try to provide you with as much information as possible.

Also, I would like to somewhat correct what you said regarding requests from clients. As much as possible, we try to give them the information they request. However, we cannot use all our resources for that. Generally, we tell them how long it will take for their case to be processed, and we tell them that they should not contact us in writing during that period. In that regard, it is true that some write to us and do not receive an answer. However, when a case is unusual, we provide the information.

I would now like to tell you what our objective is in terms of modernization. Ms. Chow referred to Australia and the fact that they provided information. In this regard, we want to go even further. The idea is to provide clients with an update on their case every three, six or nine months. That way, clients would not have to go to somewhere and check the status of their case. This information would automatically be sent to them by email. We have not reached that point yet. First, we have to finalize our global case management system. I would add that these improvements are definitely part of our plan in the coming years.

If, as members of Parliament, you do not receive the information you need, the director general of case management can also help you.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Earlier, there was some discussion of the overall refusal rate for applications. You said that in the past, it could be as high as 60%, but that it had dropped. Given that the approval rate is now 75%, I would conclude that the refusal rate is 25%. Have I understood correctly?

[Claudette Deschênes]

That is for the initial analysis, in Sydney. The cases submitted seem to meet the criteria.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

But 25% is still rather high.

Can people submitting applications do their own assessment to see whether, in principal, they meet all the criteria? Is there a part of the application that can only be assessed by officials, meaning that applicants cannot themselves determine whether or not they meet the criteria?

[Claudette Deschênes]

On our Web site, there is information that allows applicants to do a self-assessment. We may have to continue to improve this tool, but it does exist.

In applications, individuals often use the words or criteria exactly as they appear in our documents. Yet, when we look at their experience in greater detail, we realize that their CV does not necessarily correspond to reality.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

I think our time has concluded.

It's been fun, hasn't it?

[Claudette Deschênes]

Yes, it has.