Evidence of meeting #15 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was caregivers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
With the time I have left, could you give a few recommendations to the committee? Also, would you be willing to put in additional written recommendations for how to achieve the integration that you talked about in your remarks?
Deputy Director, Domestic Policy, Macdonald-Laurier Institute
Certainly, I'd be happy to provide additional written recommendations.
I would agree that it's a very fine line to tread. When I think about integration, we have to ensure that there are responsibilities and duties, on the part of immigrants, but we also need to provide adequate support.
I think the Danish model is interesting, in that it makes the receipt of certain benefits, for both temporary classes and, then, permanent residents, conditional upon certain things. For temporary...they actually have to demonstrate their own capacity to provide for benefits of various types of social services, health care, what have you. For long-term permanent status, they need to demonstrate consistent labour market participation, civic literacy and language acquisition. Denmark is a country with an integration act. There are a number of other countries like Canada, peer nations like Netherlands and Germany, that have things like this. It's something we should look to incorporate, perhaps into our Multiculturalism Act or citizenship—
Liberal
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
I am going to start with Ms. Madhany. I really appreciate your testimony, what you've shared with us and also your expertise within the field—helping newly landed people be well employed within Canada, to the appropriate level of their training and background. That's really a very salutary and important mission of yours.
In our federal budget 2025, we have a new program, called the foreign credential recognition action fund, which is being funded to the tune of $97 million. This fund speaks to what you were actually testifying about. How do you see this fund helping out with what you've highlighted, which is ensuring that newly landed people, immigrants, are well, properly and fully employed within their fields?
Managing Director, Canada and Deputy Executive Director, World Education Services
The $97 million is a good step in that there is funding provided. However, what's going to become really important is what's missing: We need to have a harmonized system in which there are licensing processes that are clear to individuals, newcomers, before they come and after they arrive; and coordination among federal departments, provinces and licensing bodies so that they're working in concert, and so that an individual who comes here isn't struggling to figure out where they get the information from, how they're going to get licensed and the timelines.
I hope the $97 million go towards systemic approaches in which there are national and harmonized standards—an individual goes to the province of their choice, they're able to tell really quickly how long it's going to take and the licence they will get, and then they can contribute to our economy straight away. It's a good first step, but...systemic approaches and harmonized standards, basically at the national and provincial levels, in collaboration with the licensing bodies.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
The fact that you're testifying to this, I'm sure, if it hasn't already, will help sharpen and highlight the fact that these earmarked monies should be going to exactly what you said: working with the provinces and the licensing boards, which are regulated by provinces. Being from Quebec, I know there are about 40-odd professional orders that are regulated by the provincial government, such as accountants, lawyers, doctors, nurses and many others. Of those multiple professions within each and every province, which would you suggest be prioritized?
Managing Director, Canada and Deputy Executive Director, World Education Services
At this point, what we know is that our demographic profile is showing that we are going to have one in three individuals who are going to retire, basically, from the workplace. As we have an aging population, the health sector is where we will have shortages. We know that the federal government has made health care professions a priority, so what I see as the priority are physicians, nurses and adjacent medical professionals—med lab technicians, etc. The second would be teachers.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Physicians are a challenging one, because those are always orders that are very careful in terms of broadening admission.
Aside from what you said already, there are credential recognitions needed in order to have skilled professionals enter fields. Do you have anything else to add to reduce those delays for credential recognition within specific skilled fields?
Managing Director, Canada and Deputy Executive Director, World Education Services
Sure. The whole issue of academic credential recognition has been resolved. That's what World Education Services does.
What we have is an issue of skills recognition and competency assessment, and that currently is a gap where we don't have standardized tools to assess somebody's credentials from an experience perspective, so we start using proxies like not having Canadian experience.
What we need are tools that are standardized, using technology to understand how somebody's skills can basically be transferred to the Canadian context in the workplace so they can quickly get licensed and start working. That's a gap that needs to be addressed.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Thank you.
Could you elaborate on that? You mentioned there are things happening for the skilled professions, but you identified that, outside of academic credentials, there needs to be a validation of previous work experience and how to translate that into an understanding that we in Canada can appreciate.
Do you want to add more about how that can actually be done?
Managing Director, Canada and Deputy Executive Director, World Education Services
What you need is basically a skills recognition process that is faster, fairer and more transparent. You need to have harmonized requirements across the federal and provincial government licensing bodies. You need to have cross-government collaboration so you don't have immigration working separately from health and licensing bodies, and you need measurable outcomes. It's a skills framework that needs to be put in place so everybody's working in concert versus immigration, labour market and health working separately. What needs to happen is a skills recognition framework.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Thank you so much.
Ms. Cody, I want to say a warm welcome to you. I didn't realize Mr. Redekopp had left, but you are warmly welcomed.
Mr. Simard, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Mr. Copeland, I just want to check that the interpretation is working properly and that you cannot hear my raucous voice, but the interpreters' soft voice.
Deputy Director, Domestic Policy, Macdonald-Laurier Institute
Yes, it is working.
I am listening to the interpretation, but I can also speak French.
Deputy Director, Domestic Policy, Macdonald-Laurier Institute
I am still going to speak in English, though.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
That is excellent.
In your opening statement, you alluded to multiculturalism and the famous Laurendeau-Dunton commission.
For a bit of history, let us recall that the Laurendeau-Dunton commission aimed to define a Canadian identity based on biculturalism and bilingualism. In the end, biculturalism was set aside in favour of multiculturalism. Trudeau senior wanted that. He did not necessarily want Quebec to have its rightful place in the constitution. However, biculturalism is now part of history, and Canada is focused on a system of integration that we see today, known as multiculturalism, where all cultures are on an equal footing. However, according to a number of analyses, placing all cultures on an equal footing is like recognizing none, which is somewhat problematic.
I say that because I think that, in establishing a migrant integration system, multiculturalism is not efficient enough to create shared identities.
On many occasions, my party has introduced a bill to remove Quebec from the sphere of multiculturalism so that we can shape our own integration system, which we present as the interculturalism system and which is based on a foundation. Interculturalism in Quebec is based on a common foundation. That means that there is a common language, which is French, and that there are principles that are essential, particularly secularism and equality between men and women. In a way, to be a Quebecker, you have to agree to adhere to these principles.
I have a fairly simple question for you. Do you think that each province should have the opportunity, in the context of the Canadian federation, to have its own integration system? Would that be a way to develop more social cohesion, to develop a greater sense of belonging? Is that a potential solution?
I am ready to hear what you have to say on the subject.
Deputy Director, Domestic Policy, Macdonald-Laurier Institute
I think the rest of Canada has much to learn from Quebec's approach to creating, sustaining and maintaining a strong national and local culture. I think that what you reference in Quebec has, in fact, been found in the other countries that I mentioned briefly in my last response. They have distinct acts that promote certain things and tie requirements to integration and to the receipt of benefits and things of this nature. I think there are many different ways in which provinces can achieve and have strong local or provincial cultures. Canada, through its Multiculturalism Act or through amendments to other legislation like the Citizenship Act, could indeed adopt some of the things that Quebec has done, I think, successfully to promote cohesion, shared identity and common values.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Speaking of shared values, I will tell you a story. Then I will let you respond.
In 1998, when I was a student at the University of Ottawa, we were presented with extensive Canadian research to define what Canadian identity is in the American system, that is, what makes a Canadian different from an American.
When a Quebecker was asked the question, his answer was quite simple. Language came first. Culture was second. The third difference struck me because, as strange as it may seem, it was our soap operas. Do not ask me why, I really do not know. But those were the differences.
When we put the question to an English Canadian, he told us that what made him different from an American was our public health care system and the fact that we were living in multiculturalism, not a melting pot.
Is there no other definition of being a Canadian? Does multiculturalism make it difficult to define what Canadian identity is, what it looks like, what it is based on and what it is structured around?
No one wants to use that kind of thinking today, because it would run counter to the dominant discourse that says we have to be open to other people, to let us be transformed by them, to be a host society that does not set parameters for integration.
If you are able to do so, I would like you to give me some indication of what defines Canadian identity. I am still looking for the answer to that question, even after many years, even after more than 20 years.
Deputy Director, Domestic Policy, Macdonald-Laurier Institute
It's a great question.
We have seen a kind of flash in the pan here in light of U.S. aggression, the kind of Anglo-Canadian identity flare-up as precisely anti-Americanism. Beyond relatively trivial and thin commitments to hockey, politeness, kindness, maple syrup and things like this, English Canada has a rather thin identity.
I think it's precisely because we emphasize all of these procedural commitments to openness and diversity. I think that, when you do so, we end up in a situation where... I think it's true for a lot of the cosmopolitan, professional, managerial class today in that they belong anywhere, but also nowhere. In fact, it's not consistent with human anthropology. People need bonds, they need friendships, they need commitments and they need these things to be to be stable over time. You have to be committed to specific people and places over time and specific values and not others while also being accepting and tolerant. They're in no way inconsistent with that.
I like to think—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Mr. Copeland, thank you so much. We're way over time. Maybe you can continue during your next chance to respond.
Next we're moving to five-minute rounds, and we begin with Mr. Ma.
Conservative
Michael Ma Conservative Markham—Unionville, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Copeland, you wrote a piece in Without Diminishment on the Global Flourishing Study. You highlighted that the strongest predictors of flourishing are stable families, marriage, religious participation, meaningful work and strong communities.
Leading up to that, do you agree that our national level of immigration should be tied to housing, health care and job considerations in tying all that together?