Evidence of meeting #33 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was services.
A video is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Please do not point the camera at me. Please point it at our witness.
Now we can see the room. I think we're good, Mr. Ho.
Mr. Menegakis, we stopped your time. We are going to restart.
Professor Barutciski, go ahead, please.
Professor, York University, As an Individual
I was talking about changing statuses. Sometimes there could be problems with that.
Part of the balance we're trying to attain is with the factors that my colleague mentioned. Housing, work and integrating into the community have to be balanced with the other side. The government does have an interest in controlling this, particularly for asylum seekers who are here to claim asylum. We don't know if they will be staying in the long term, so it is a bit of a tricky question.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
You mentioned that they should also accept the consequences of their illegal actions. What do you believe the consequences of their illegal actions should be?
Professor, York University, As an Individual
As I just said about control, if someone is not respecting immigration laws, then there should be consequences. We do have procedures, so they have to be enforced.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Recently, we've seen judges give preferential treatment to folks to protect their immigration status. Let's put it that way.
Do you agree that non-citizen immigrants should be treated differently from Canadian citizens for committing the same crime?
Professor, York University, As an Individual
I understand the good intentions behind that, but part of the leitmotif behind what I'm saying is that we have to be careful not to overcompensate and not to be overly generous in how we interpret the rights. That was one of the points I made in my initial statement. I think we do that a lot. In my view, that is one reason we have found ourselves in the current predicament.
For example, a surge happened at the Toronto international airport a couple of years ago. It was not by chance. There were policies that led to a lot of claims at the airport.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Most Canadians believe that if you commit a crime, you should get the same sentence, no matter who commits the crime. It doesn't matter what your status is.
By letting asylum claims drag on for years, hasn't the government's strategic incompetence turned a backlogged asylum system into a ticket to residency?
Professor, York University, As an Individual
Indirectly, that's the effect. We have procedures that are complicated and that are used in ways that are unmanageable. We also have high numbers of claims, even now, compared to what we had 10 years ago.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
There's no question about that.
I want to talk about the IRB backlogs. You commented on this and suggested completely abolishing the tribunal, which is quite a strong stance to take. I'm sure you would agree.
What did the Liberals do to make you believe that this would be the best path forward?
Professor, York University, As an Individual
I didn't actually say that we should abolish. I said we should consider. I don't think, particularly, the government—
Conservative
Professor, York University, As an Individual
I don't think it's necessarily what the governing party has done over the last few years. It's actually the IRB. We, or you, the Parliament, gave it an independent mandate. I have observed the IRB since it was created in 1989, and it's actually taking a lot of these powers. In its procedures, it's going back to the theme we were just talking about a few moments ago. It's interpreting all the norms in, I would say, the most open way possible. That's good and I understand the intentions behind that, but it does lead to complications.
You're highlighting one of them. We have procedures that drag on forever and, obviously, that changes the status of someone. You can't be doing an asylum procedure for three, four, five or six years without acknowledging that the person needs to be integrated into the local community. We've created a system that is, I would say, not sustainable. Parliament should consider the powers it gave to this agency, including changing them, because the models we have around the world are quite different.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Mr. Jacques, I'd like to move over to you, if I may, sir.
You mentioned that Peel Region is doing more than its fair share of accommodating asylum claimants in our country. Can you elaborate a little bit on what effect the tremendous backlogs we see continuing to grow in the asylum system have had on Peel Region specifically?
Commissioner of Human Services, Region of Peel
Thank you for the question.
As far as the backlog goes, we process and work with individuals who come through. On average, through our reception centre, we can house and work with 592 individuals. They're usually there for about 90 days. That's the length of stay that IRCC has suggested in order to work them through, with Ms. Stellinga and her team, to get them the health care they need coming into the country and their employment status, as well as any other training. We run job fairs and the rest.
It takes around 90 days, on average, for those individuals to get to a point where they can start to make decisions about where they'll go. That length of stay has increased, based on the complexities of the market. That's gone to well over 110 days per individual who comes in.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
I'm sorry, Mr. Menegakis. That is time, but you could continue in the next round.
Now, we have six minutes for Ms. Sodhi.
Liberal
Amandeep Sodhi Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
Thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today.
I'd like to ask my first set of questions of Ms. Stellinga.
COSTI has been the service delivery partner at Peel Reception Centre since it opened. The work you do speaks volumes and truly does make a difference in our communities.
Can you describe what federally funded support looks like on the ground for newcomers in Brampton and in the Peel region as a whole? How does federal investment translate into real outcomes for families that are struggling in times of need?
Chief Executive Officer, COSTI Immigrant Services
As I was saying earlier in my comments, it's essential that newcomers are supported in order for them to settle successfully and to achieve those outcomes that are their dreams and their aspirations. People come here because they want to start a new life and have a new beginning for them, their family and so on. Federal funding in regard to the asylum claimants flows through the municipality—Peel Region—to us as a service provider at the shelter site in Mississauga in the Peel region.
We're able to provide a variety of supports. It's everything from shelter to assistance finding housing, language, employment, mental health and trauma supports, and assistance navigating the community. All of those things are critical for them and their families to begin their days here. We know that those outcomes are incredibly important. Those supports are really important because that drives the success in the community.
The other part is that the funding allows the community and the region to be accessible in terms of having a system and an infrastructure in place that is welcoming and that supports individuals. That is essential, because without that partnership and coordination between federal, regional and municipal, we would not be able to provide the supports and services that enable people to begin their lives successfully here.
Liberal
Amandeep Sodhi Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
Thank you for the answer.
Canada welcomes thousands of newcomers every year. They all end up settling in different parts of the country for all different kinds of reasons. Can you explain how that process works? What factors influence where asylum seekers and refugees tend to settle?
Chief Executive Officer, COSTI Immigrant Services
What we're seeing, in the premise of the study, is that people are mainly going to larger urban centres, like Toronto and Montreal, because they are ports of entry and because there's an assumption that these urban centres have greater access to jobs, housing, supports and the cultural communities that individuals may be associated with. That's an important part of where people will choose to live.
Our point is that if we want to have distribution across the country into different parts, we have to ensure that the system is coordinated and in partnership with all levels of government to ensure that supports on the ground are available. It would be entirely unfair if we were to take people and put them in places where there are no supports, where communities are not welcoming, where there isn't the infrastructure and where, more importantly, there isn't the coordination that is really necessary to ensure that people are accessing services, that we're reducing service gaps and duplication and that we're really setting people up for success.
Liberal
Amandeep Sodhi Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
You've also highlighted the need to counter harmful narratives about immigration. In your experience at COSTI, serving Brampton's and the Peel region's newcomer communities, what are some of the concrete stories of contribution and success that you want the committee or Canadians to hear more of?
Chief Executive Officer, COSTI Immigrant Services
Without a doubt, we see that people come here looking to start their lives. They are extremely inspired and motivated to be successful for themselves and for their families. They do not want to be in a shelter. They do not want to be living.... This shelter in Mississauga is a dorm-style shelter, where they can stay for 90 days. It is not the best place to be in. They want to move out. They want to go into the community. They want to start their own lives.
We have many such stories of people who have come in and accessed those supports. They've been able to stand on their own feet. They've been able to go to language classes and get jobs.
We had a beautiful story recently. A young woman who had arrived was supported by our shelter and given language classes. She accessed supports and went out and became a teacher. She came back to the community and was teaching at the school next door to the shelter site. She came back to the shelter and told her story. It was a beautiful full circle of how she was now contributing and giving back to the community where she had been supported and where the doors opened up for her in the first place.
We have tons of stories and outcomes like that.
Liberal
Amandeep Sodhi Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
That's amazing. I think it shows what we can actually do if we help and empower one another.
We heard in the opening remarks that there was an influx, a surge, in asylum seekers and refugees, predominantly in the Peel area. After a period of rapid growth, our new government is working to restore stability and balance in the immigration system. The government's first immigration levels plan saw a return to more sustainable levels, and we are also seeing the temporary resident population decline.
As a settlement service provider for newcomers in the GTA, can you tell this committee how sustainability and predictability in programs are important for the critical work you do?
Chief Executive Officer, COSTI Immigrant Services
We're focused on outcomes for our country, our region and our neighbourhoods. In order to have those successful outcomes, the settlement sector, which is the sector that my agency and I are a part of, along with many partners and municipal governments contributing to those supports and services, knows it is just as important as the physical infrastructure. Just as we think about roads, bridges, schools and hospitals, settlement supports and supports for newcomers are essential because we are driving people-focused outcomes. We are driving those outcomes with the support of the federal, provincial and regional governments to ensure that people have access to services, without which it would be very difficult for people to succeed.
The predictability for the sector, which enables us to know we can count on the funding to deliver that and to know we have qualified, professional staff who are trained and accountable—
