Evidence of meeting #42 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was retailers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director General, Devolution and Territorial Relations Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
None have registered yet, because we haven't started the technical part of signing up applicants, but several have expressed interest.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
Okay. That's good.
We were under the assumption the whole time that the reason they're getting rid of these non-perishable goods is so that this money could go to perishable goods. But I just asked the prices and you said that they are almost the same as they were before. In fact, the savings of $7 million, instead of going to perishable goods, is going to pay for education and promotion, the advisory board, and the country foods. I'm not sure that people want their bills higher in the north just so they can pay for these extra programs that the government should be doing anyway.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Well, these are improvements that were asked for by northerners--
Liberal
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
They would like to see more country food subsidized and we have said that we're open to that as long as it meets the same kinds of standards that you would expect when going to your grocery store here in the south. So we're actually trying to build some flexibility into the program so that we can do more of what the northerners have asked us to do.
We're anticipating some growth in consumption as a result of this, so we also have to be careful. Because we don't want to be in a situation such that, if the program is really successful next year, we come back and say that it's no longer $60 million, that it's $62 million or $65 million. In our estimations, we have already made some projections for some of that $7 million to help deal with some of the growth.
Yes, the rates are going to be comparable and may be slightly lower. That also doesn't take into account the savings that we've just demonstrated the retailers and shippers may be able to realize, which will actually then bring down that price of a pint of milk, we hope. That's our ultimate objective.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
But it's not right now: they get a whole bunch of things they don't get paid for anymore, and for the things that they do get paid for--the perishables--they're getting roughly the same rates.
I have a last question. How would it go if you were using the Old Crow system, where they go to the retailers and they send up...? There's only one airline. There's only one way to go, except that now you're going to have to monitor a whole bunch of retailers instead of one shipper. How would it go from $58 million to $158 million? Are you saying that we're starving Arctic people so that they're getting one third of the perishable foods they should get and now they're going to go from $58 million to $158 million?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
We have 100,000 clients served by this program: 100,000 Canadians depend on this program one way or another. If every single one of them flies down south, goes to a retailer, and brings their bundle of foods to the airline counter to be shipped, imagine the logistic nightmare that would create.
Old Crow has a population of 230 so we recognize that there's a special circumstance there and we're trying to adapt to it. We can't create that kind of situation for 100,000 people across the country.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
Yes, but it's absurd. The people in the Arctic aren't going to spend $5,000 to go down and go to the grocery store...and still, it's a lot quicker.
One last...?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
It's a lot easier for them to pick up the phone or go on the Internet and order their foods through a personal order and have that shipped.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Thank you.
I'm going to come to Mr. Lévesque at the end.
I have Mr. Weston, Mr. D'Amours, and Mr. Russell. I'm trying to make sure that this is as even as possible.
Let's go to Mr. Weston.
Just for a couple of minutes, if we can, Mr. Weston, two or three minutes.
Conservative
John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
I'm just confused by my colleague Mr. Bagnell. I mean, the last few comments would suggest that there's no actual advantage to perishables under the new regime, but it seems that everything is conspiring to give perishables--healthy food--more of an advantage.
In that respect, I see that other rumours without substance are circulating. There was a report in the Kivalliq News on December 8 saying that individuals making personal orders from the south would have to pay the full cost of shipping, keep their receipts, and then ask to be reimbursed by the government.
It sounds to me and to other members of this committee as if that's not true. Can you please clarify?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
No, it's not. They will be able to receive their personal order and we will have an arrangement with the southern supplier to compensate for the subsidy.
Conservative
John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Yes, and you've said that already. I know you're repeating yourself, but I just keep hearing these things coming out.
That's all for me, Mr. Chair.
Liberal
Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Unless I'm mistaken, you are going to grant an initial amount that will make it possible to purchase food. After that, you'll ask retailers to provide you with proof or documents so that you can issue payment. Is that correct?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
We're going to sign a contribution agreement with each of the retailers. The agreement will determine an estimate based on past consumption and use of the subsidy. That could be $100,000 for one retailer in a particular community. Under the fund transfer policy, we can grant advance payments to finance transitional issues or things like that.
So that's what we're going to do. We're going to apply the policy so that, at the start of the contribution agreement, we can address this period of uncertainty of one month or six weeks, which is currently permitted in—
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Afterward, that will eventually catch up. We're also doing—
Liberal
Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Afterward, how will payments be made? Will they be made on presentation of a document to the minister by the retailer?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That's correct. The proof of application of the subsidy will be provided electronically.
Then we'll be able to do a check and make the payments. We'll have a claims processor who can ensure that that meets the conditions. Then payments will be issued monthly.
Liberal
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
In the north, we have 110 or 115 retailers. You have to add the retailers in the south.