Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 14th, 2012

[Grant Trump]

Thank you very much.

I agree with you. I believe it's absolutely critical that we form these partnerships on either publicly funded activities or privately funded energy or mining projects. We need to ensure full participation. I point back to the FCSAP program, the federal contaminated sites action plan, which you are all well aware of, which is some $3.3 billion for the cleanup of federally owned contaminated sites. I sit on that committee, and 60% of those funds, over $2 billion, will be spent north of 60.

Our organization's comment to that was if we are going to expend in excess of $2 billion north of 60, shame on us if we don't leave a legacy of trained aboriginal people who could work in a variety of sectors of the economy.

The issue is partnerships, and you will find that industry is willing to partner. Industry contributed some $12 million to the project I just referred to. As well, I believe the traditional community and the traditional community college system and education system is willing and able to develop programming based on the actual skill requirements of the individuals.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Just to interrupt you there, Mr. Trump, is your organization and the work you do nimble enough to respond to moving from the pre-phase to the actual process where the CEA would begin to train community members, for example? You talked about some institutional certificates, college diplomas, and even university degrees in the United States. How can we make this real for communities staring this kind of process down sooner rather than later?

[Grant Trump]

We develop and document national occupational standards for environmental employment. We do that in very short order, in partnership with organizations and individuals involved in that. They become the national standard we certify against. For example, we just completed and started the certification of professional meteorologists in Canada, in combination with Environment Canada meteorological services.

We're also the only organization in the world--I won't be able to say this for long--that is ISO-accredited to certify greenhouse gas verifiers and quantifiers. So we document the skills, knowledge, and competency required to do CEAs or a variety of those activities. We then document them. We make them available to the public, and we either develop curriculum or have it developed in order to meet those requirements.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

I spoke with Bill this morning from the Cliffs project. He's obviously a very sophisticated gentleman in an industry that is complex, to say the least. We talked about not only the development of this project, but balancing the environmental issues and the development of the potentially largest chromite deposit in the world, with a sustainability projected at or near 100 years. So we're talking about a future for first nations communities, primarily a community like Webequie, which most meets the direct connection test in terms of its geographic proximity to the epicentre of mining activity.

How can we work together with a specified number of people from the first nations community in an effort to get some capacity there in a process that's going to be a year long? They absolutely need to have this kind of training.

[Grant Trump]

We would more than willing to work with any group in order to put that together. Of course, it will take some funding--that goes without saying. But building those partnerships is something we have already done. As a result, I believe our mechanism and our standard operating procedures for documenting national occupational standards can be used in this situation, and it could be done in very quick order.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Trump. I encourage you to attend the PDAC convention. There will be a lot of great activity there that includes first nations communities presence in a number of these large-scale projects. I appreciate you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Mr. Rickford.

Ms. Bennett, you have seven minutes.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First I need to apologize to the witnesses. Last week as part of the committee hearings I had asked and telegraphed that I'd be able to move a motion. Unfortunately, the committee went in camera. I believe very strongly that we should be carrying out our committee business in public. It is the only way Parliament can hold government to account. So I will read that motion now:

That the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development travel to Attawapiskat First Nation no later than March 1, 2012, in order to review and assess the Government of Canada's response to the urgent situation facing that community.

We believe we need to know what's happening. The court has ordered that the funds be released to prepare those sites. The minister has stated that they were never frozen. I think it's extraordinarily important that this committee find out what is actually happening so we can do our jobs as parliamentarians and be able to find out what is indeed the truth.

I have moved that motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Okay, you read it. I just want to confirm that you've now moved it. I think the clerk will be circulating the text of that motion, because time has been given for it to be moved. We have it in both official languages.

We'll now move to discussion on this. It's a little unorthodox, but you have moved it and you have the right to do that. I have a speaking list that's developing.

Mr. Rickford, you're the first on the speaking list. Ms. Bennett has explained her motion.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's a bit unfortunate that we have a time-sensitive witness here. We at least could have respected that and then moved into this.

I'm happy to speak to this on the record for the benefit of the committee and the general public, of course, Mr. Chair.

As I've said before in the House and in media exercises with my colleagues, our government's focus has been, and will continue to be, to deliver results for the issues that were identified with respect to this emergency situation as declared by the community. In fact, we have correspondence just prior to that declaration that supports a cooperative relationship in addressing housing needs.

As that developed, there were three primary exercises that we understood needed to be engaged. They included first bringing emergency supplies to the community; secondly, to retrofit a facility that would, in the short term, provide safe and warm shelter for the community—that was identified in full cooperation with the community; thirdly, an important exercise to deliver 22 homes into the community of Attawapiskat. Of course that exercise is still ongoing. We understand that as recently as this weekend a couple of houses have reached or are on the way to the community. There is a blossoming relationship that we hope will continue to ensure that the lots are prepared.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Is this about my motion?

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

It most certainly is, and I would appreciate it if I could continue without interruption.

The exercise right now critically is for that process to continue, and to support a relationship where the lots are prepared and our minister--

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Mr. Rickford, I'll recognize the point of order from Ms. Bennett.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

If taking the parliamentary secretary's word for all of this was adequate, we would have done that a long time ago. This is a very specific motion about the committee going on a fact-finding mission--

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Ms. Bennett, that's not a point of order.

How it works now is we've launched into a point in which once people receive the floor, they can endeavour to speak as long as they want. I do implore committee members that we do have witnesses and a time-sensitive committee witness, so if there's a way we can move to the vote expeditiously, that would be helpful for all.

Mr. Rickford, you have the floor.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

I agree, Mr. Chair. It's an unfortunate changing of the channel at this particular time. We would have been happy to accommodate later, in respect of our important witness here.

That said, this is important context and speaks to the substance of this motion.

Where we are at now, and this is factual, is the leader of the opposition and the member of Parliament for Timmins—James Bay have visited the community. In fact, I understand the leader of the third party and this particular member have visited the community. We are in a process right now of supporting the terms of what we always had said we would live up to. That was, of course, to support the three important exercises that were agreed to.

Furthermore, Mr. Chair, I would suggest respectfully that none of us is in a position at this point to assist with what the community really needs, at least as far as I know, and that is to ensure that those lots are prepared for those houses to continue to come up that road. I'm not aware of the ability of the member who tabled this motion, beyond having a great reputation as a physician, as to whether she can assist with preparing those lots. Right now I would suggest respectfully that this is what Attawapiskat needs. Furthermore, they need the support we're giving them, and if there are challenges with respect to preparing those lots, we would be in a position to provide extra support.

To add to that, Mr. Chair, we have resources for the committee that should be respected. We spoke at great length at subcommittee, and I believe in general committee business we're going to be talking about some trips, and I don't think it's available--

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

I'll just cut in there. Obviously you know that subcommittee is in camera.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Sorry, yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

The vast majority are.

Committee members, I implore you not to speak about something that wasn't on the record.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Sorry.

Anyway, we have to respect that and respect the process that is currently under way. For those reasons, Mr. Chair, this side of the table will not be supporting this motion.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Again, committee members, I am hopeful that we can be done with that and go to the vote.

Ms. Duncan.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

It's funny how you always say that before we start talking.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

I'm just saying I'm hopeful that my list won't grow as you're speaking.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'm just kidding. Okay.

I want to inform the committee that, cognizant of the fact that I knew our colleague would raise her motion again and try to do it in public, I took the time to actually phone Chief Spence. I thought that I should base my decision on whether or not she would welcome the committee travelling to Attawapiskat. The important thing is whether she would welcome us at this time when she has a lot of issues she is dealing with. She informed me today that she would actually welcome us.

I have been clear with some of the members before that I was leery of going right now because they had a lot on their plate. Given the fact that she would welcome us, I would support the motion. But I have been very clear that I welcome the opportunity for all the members to visit a number of the communities along James Bay. And there might be an opportunity to go to Fort Albany and Kashechewan, as well as Attawapiskat. It certainly fits in with the review we are doing. If we do a tour, given the fact that Chief Spence says she will welcome us, I think we should give due consideration to her invitation.

I'll be recommending that our members support the motion.