Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2026

[Chief Lisa Robinson]

We are. We're part of the Algonquin Nation Secretariat, which has been involved in a lot of these processes that the AFN has been involved in, and Canada as well, in terms of developing this policy. However, with that effort I don't know if things are really going to come to fruition. I hope they do, but there's been a lot of involvement through our tribal council as well that has supported us in this work and to making sure that we're doing everything to move forward.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

Thank you, Chief.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Go ahead, you have some more time.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

I want to go Chief Paavola.

I was curious about whether your situation correlates with Chief Robinson's where, and correct me if I'm wrong, you are recognized status Indians with band title but just landless. Is that correct?

[Chief Helen Paavola]

Our first nation is unrecognized federally as of yet. We are going through the process through the courts. We did try to go through the policy and the policy just doesn't work. It was just one thing after another. Canada kept coming back with other things they wanted from us. My first nation, my members, we are status Indians and we do have a situated community. We are not landless.

Everything the chief said before me is stuff that we're dealing with. Consultation is really hard. We can't really get into other projects that are happening around us because we're constantly being.... It's just hard because we're not recognized federally by the government yet.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much, Chief. You'll be able to answer some more questions as we go along. We're just a little over time.

Next for six minutes we have Philip, please, for the Liberals.

[Philip Earle, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you witnesses.

I'm going to direct my questions to Chief Céline Cassivi.

Thank you, Chief, for the brief that you submitted and the brief that you gave us today.

My attention was drawn to a portion of the written brief that I have in my package, which talked about your wanting to tell the committee about your experience and your band's experience, and the multigenerational consequences of not having a reserve. I look at multigenerational as youth, adults and elders.

I would like you to break that down and tell us more about the impacts of this journey, or the impact the journey has had on your youth, your adults and the elders.

[Chief Céline Cassivi]

There is one very important issue that the Gespeg community is working very hard on: we have completely lost our language. Not a single member of the community speaks Mi’kmaq. We have lost our culture as well. We have about 2,000 members with status, but in the Gespe’gewa’gi territory, in Gespeg itself, we have about 800 members. There is a diaspora and people are scattered all over the place, so it has been difficult to preserve our culture. It is a daily challenge to reclaim our culture.

We are a recognized community, but we did not have reserve status. We obtained it in December 2025. It’s really an achievement for us. We were part of the fast-track process with a reserve creation proposal form. It’s very positive for Gespeg.

[Philip Earle, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you.

Your community has been on this journey for 16 years. You arrived in December 2025 at the conclusion of your community being recognized. To help us when we write our report, could you tell our committee about some of the experiences you have had on the 16-year journey to be able to see improvements in this regard?

[Chief Céline Cassivi]

The people who came before us, the former chiefs and councils, worked very hard. They were accompanied by lawyers. The answer was always the same: We were told that we belonged to the Listuguj community, which is the neighbouring community. We are part of Gespe’gewa’gi, in the Gaspésie. There are three Mi’kmaq communities, and we were told that we were part of Listuguj, but Listuguj is four hours away from us. So, for us, it didn’t make any sense. So, year after year, term after term, each chief worked to create a reserve.

Then, about a year and a half ago, we heard that there was a new process and that we could fill out and submit a form and get guidelines to help us through the process. So we decided to try this process and figured we had everything to gain. We went ahead with it. It was extremely rigorous work. We assigned people to work on this file full time. Finally, after a year and a half, we got a positive response.

[Philip Earle, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

In an earlier session with the Government of Canada representatives from both CIRNAC and Indigenous Services Canada, we heard about some particular criteria within the province of Quebec. The community must have 200 people and must be largely established to develop housing.

Is there anything unique you may have learned, as in being recognized both by Canada—you've described that—and by Quebec, that may be of interest to our committee?

[Chief Céline Cassivi]

I don’t understand the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

You have just a bit of time left.

[Philip Earle, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Okay. We'll leave it there.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Kitchi meegwetch to all the witnesses. Their presentations had a very powerful impact. Indeed, hearing this testimony was one of my objectives in proposing this study.

When the election campaign was launched, on the first day, I went to Lisa Robinson’s office. For your information, the community office was donated by a chief who preceded Ms. Robinson by several generations. The community therefore has its own building. It was not financed by any government funds whatsoever. This is evidence of the fact that this community has, all in all, been abandoned. I do not think that word is too strong in the circumstances.

On that first day, I also visited the office of Lance Haymond, whom the committee knows well, and I visited the office of Mr. Mathias, from the Long Point community. I wanted us to talk about this commitment on the federal side to try to speed things up. One of the things that shocks me….

My question is for you, Ms. Robinson. What is the status of your discussions with the government currently? Are there any formal talks under way with a view to recognizing reserve status or some equivalent form of territorial recognition? Where are you at right now?

[Chief Lisa Robinson]

As I stated earlier, in terms of us at Wolf Lake, we entered into negotiations in 2020. Since then, we've been engaged in Canada's process. It is the most recent process that I'm more familiar with. I know the chiefs before me had different processes, which I mentioned, in the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s.

This current process of negotiation has been challenging. When I entered into these negotiations, we received a mandate letter from the former minister, Carolyn Bennett. In her letter, she referred to a comprehensive process for the people of Wolf Lake. However, in the negotiation, it is far from comprehensive.

Since then, we've had Minister Miller,Minister Anandasangaree, and today we have Minister Alty. Also, a departmental split happened. We have CIRNAC and ISC. When we talk about reserve creation, we know that we need to involve ISC, but some of the messaging I get is like ping-pong. Who do we talk to?

A political mandate to do the right thing is needed for the people of Wolf Lake, for us to have justice and to resolve this issue.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

This political ping-pong game puts you at a disadvantage. It inevitably preserves the status quo.

I would also like you to tell us about your relations with the Timiskaming community and the neighbouring community of Kebaowek. I can attest that they are excellent. The Timiskaming community was even willing to cede some territory. Obviously, this is up to you. You may need to hold public consultations with your members to decide whether or not to accept this territory. However, I just want to say that in the Abitibi-Témiscamingue region, and particularly in southern Témiscamingue, we and the government of Quebec want to welcome you as a community with formal territory. What is the biggest obstacle for you right now?

[Chief Lisa Robinson]

What is putting the brakes on? It's just the political will of Canada, as I've stated time and time again here.

I do appreciate your comment regarding the relationships with Wolf Lake. We have had discussions with our neighbours, our sister community at Kebaowek and the municipality, as well. We also have a fairly good relationship with the local MRC. Those are key, but at the end of the day, it's not.... Policy and administration.... That is what has bogged us down. It's those changes that were made unilaterally that continue to keep us in the situation we are in.

I don't have any solutions, but Canada really needs to decide what it is going to do. What is Canada going to do for us?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Maintaining an ongoing dialogue is essential in this context.

Mr. Mathias, kwei. Can you also tell us what's preventing the establishment of reserve status for you? We know that many things have moved forward, particularly when it comes to indigenous policing. You testified about that before this committee a few weeks ago.

What's the roadblock right now, in your opinion?

[Chief Steeve Mathias]

Kwei. Good afternoon, Mr. Lemire.

What's the roadblock? I think a number of things explain why we find ourselves in this situation today. A number of aspects were developed without involving community members or the band council. That created fairly complex situations for us.

There's also the issue of surface area. Under a provincial policy, there is a formula that determines the number of square kilometres allotted. In our case, we were entitled to 9.5 square kilometres. However, that number is based solely on residential needs. We told them that we also want to build an economic base. We don't want to create a ghetto. We really want to ensure the long-term survival of the community. We want to provide a true economic base. Geographically, Winneway is not right next to a highway. You have to get there, and we're somewhat isolated in the forest. So our economic base would be access to land and natural resources. That is one of the major issues. There was even an attempt to propose—

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

We have to go to the next one. We're over time.

We have MP Schmale for five minutes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Thank you very much Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses.

Sometimes, in the order of the committee, you look at the agenda and think it would be nice to have the department officials after this panel, because we could go to them and ask the questions. We could say, “Hey, you're hearing the testimony. What's the response?” Unfortunately, they went first.

In my original line of questioning, I mentioned nations that we on this side of the House meet with quite often. Usually, the ATR process is one of the top three on the list of discussions we're having.

I would never name a nation in a committee setting like this without their direct permission, but we have a lot of concerns about the process and the timeline. Part of my questioning in the first round was around there being a lot of applications that seem on the surface to be quite straightforward and should be quite easy to approve. What I'm getting from you, Chief Robinson, is that it seems pretty straightforward. You want the ability to set up and start your path forward, and right now we're still waiting.

We had another chief just a second ago talking about nine square kilometres, I believe. In the scheme of things, that seems pretty small and reasonable, especially, as my friend Mr. Morin just pointed out, since it's still Crown land at the end of the day, due to the legislation that's been put in place. The fact is that we continue to have hurdle after hurdle, and this slow process—again, as I pointed out in the first round—for applications that seem straightforward.

I know you've answered many questions on this. I know there are other barriers. It's just overly frustrating. I don't really have a question on this, and you've added a lot, but if you want to respond, fire away. However, I have questions for the grand council chief beside you.