Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 29th, 2025

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

I call this meeting to order.

Good afternoon. Welcome to meeting number eight of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, September 24, 2025, the committee is continuing its study of indigenous policing and public safety.

I would like to welcome our witnesses, some online, some in person, for our first panel. We have representatives from the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association, the Nishnawbe Aski Nation and the Ontario Provincial Police.

You will each have five minutes to give an opening statement, followed by a few questions.

I guess since the OPP is here in person, we can start with them.

Will you be making the presentation, or will your colleague online be doing that?

[Inspector Marcel Beaudin, Indigenous Policing Bureau, Ontario Provincial Police]

I'll be making it, sir.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Okay, Inspector, it's all yours. You have five minutes.

[Insp Marcel Beaudin]

Awesome. Thank you.

Many thanks for having us here and represented at the table.

Boozhoo. Aaniin. Nindizhinikaaz Marcel Beaudin. I'm a proud member of Henvey Inlet First Nation and a member of the Martin clan. I serve the OPP as an inspector with the indigenous policing bureau. I also serve as co-chair of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police's policing with indigenous peoples committee. This committee provides advice on matters relating to sustainable policing services and enhanced public safety for indigenous peoples throughout Canada. I've worked in and around first nations policing since 2005. Many of the conversations we were having 20 years ago about equity in policing continue today.

I'm joined virtually by OPP inspector Michael Kreisz, detachment commander of the Sioux Lookout cluster. Inspector Kreisz is responsible for policing three remote first nations through stream two agreements. He works closely with first nation leadership on local policing priorities, such as the enforcement of first nations bylaws, and is continually engaged with the Nishnawbe Aski legal services team to advance community safety and legal recognition efforts.

The OPP currently administers policing services for 17 first nations under the OFNPA. We provide dedicated services to three first nations through stream two agreements. We deliver direct policing services to 22 first nations. We collaborate with nine self-administered first nations police services represented by the Indigenous Police Chiefs of Ontario, which collectively serves 86 indigenous communities across the province. In 2025 we supported IPCO services with 888 calls for service through our provincial operations centre. The OPP provides integrated response, operational and investigative excellence and frontline backup when required due to a lack of resources and services as a result of the first nations policing structure. Under the Community Safety and Policing Act, the OPP is mandated to provide policing services to first nations communities.

Our recommendations are simple. However, I offer my professional and personal perspective to highlight why these recommendations matter. We recommend recognition of first nations policing as an essential service; long-term, sustainable funding for first nations police services beyond frontline policing, including funding for specialized units and funding for community engagement officers, often overlooked but vital to changing perceptions of police in communities; amendments to the Ontario Pension Board retirement policies for OPP members who may want to work for first nations police services; and designated funding to support enforcement of first nations laws and bylaws, along with prosecutorial mechanisms to uphold them.

I'm a proud OPP officer. My position provides me with an incredible platform to influence change from within my organization. However, because of my personal and professional backgrounds, I have always been drawn to policing from within indigenous services. Although offered opportunities for leadership positions in first nations police services, I have had to decline. Despite this honour, the instability and structure of first nations policing, coupled with a lack of adequate resources and services, makes it difficult to commit, especially with a family to support and a mortgage to pay.

Officers working in first nations policing demonstrate extraordinary courage. They risk not only their lives and their physical and mental safety but also their financial security. Their dedication deserves the structural support necessary to thrive.

First nations services in Ontario are further hindered by post-retirement restrictions that are tied to the Ontario Pension Board. These policies create systemic barriers to recruiting and retaining experienced OPP officers and leaders into first nations police services. Recently, the provincial judges pension plan was amended to temporarily suspend earnings-based limits for retired judges, allowing their pension payments to go unreduced, regardless of days served.

Even with equitable funding, we must recognize that first nations police services are starting from a place of disadvantage, with decades of underfunding and systemic inequality. Catching up requires more than parity; it requires intentional investment and structural change. Each community is unique in its approach. While legislative recognition and sustainable funding are critical, progress also depends on strong collaboration between federal, provincial, municipal and indigenous partners.

Inspector Kreisz can offer a localized perspective on the unique challenges and successes he has experienced working with communities in northern Ontario.

Thank you again for the opportunity to contribute to this important study. We welcome your questions. We are extremely hopeful for a fruitful outcome.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Thank you, Inspector. You are right on time, so it's nicely done.

I will go, next, to my geographical next-door neighbour, Chief Swamp of the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association and the Rama Police Service.

It's nice to see you again. You have five minutes, sir.

[Chief Jerel Swamp, Chief of Police, Rama Police Service, and President, First Nations Chiefs of Police Association]

Thank you.

My name is Jerel Swamp. I am a Mohawk from Akwesasne. I am the chief of police in Rama. I also sit on the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police board as vice-president.

I'd like to thank you for inviting me to speak today. I'm honoured to appear on behalf of the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association, the FNCPA. We are the national voice for indigenous-led policing in Canada. Our member chiefs lead 36 first nations police services, collectively serving approximately 150 indigenous communities from coast to coast.

The First Nations Chiefs of Police Association brings senior leaders together to share practices, mentor the next generation and strengthen day-to-day operations. We coordinate leadership development, mid-level supervisor training, wellness supports, governance tools and culturally informed specialized training. We also provide policy advice to governments and partners so that public safety decisions are grounded in on-the-ground realities.

Modern indigenous policing in Canada took shape more than three decades ago with the creation of the first nations and Inuit policing program in 1991. Under tripartite agreements, first nations, provinces and territories, and the federal government sought to deliver policing that is professional, effective and culturally responsive. Those early steps were important. They recognized that safety solutions must reflect community realities, languages and legal traditions, and that trust is built through local presence and accountability.

Where indigenous police services are established, we see stronger relationships with leadership and elders, faster responses in remote settings, culturally safe victim support and innovative prevention with youth diversion, land-based healing and partnerships that reduce harm from drugs, family violence and exploitation. Indigenous services also collaborate effectively with neighbouring agencies on organized crime, major cases and emergencies. The majority of our officers live in and understand the communities they serve. It makes a difference when we can attend a scene and speak the language that is spoken, and when we understand the cultures, challenges and struggles within each community we serve.

Despite these successes, FNIPP-funded services are not consistently treated or resourced as an essential service. That single fact explains many of today's pressures. Without essential service recognition, funding is often short-term and under-indexed, which makes long-range planning and staff stability difficult.

The capital needs are extraordinary. Safe detachments, housing, communication towers and secure evidence facilities are chronically deferred. Equipment and information management systems lag behind modern standards, complicating disclosure and major case management. Compensation and benefits gaps hinder recruitment and retention against better-resourced services and agencies. Oversight and statutory obligations continue to grow without matched resources, increasing the risk for communities and officers. These constraints don't just affect the balance sheets. They affect safety outcomes. They also limit the ability of communities wanting to stand up a new indigenous police service to do so with a reasonable expectation of success.

We are a constructive partner. The FNCPA has been working closely with Public Safety Canada and the Assembly of First Nations to strengthen the FNIPP and help shape a legislative framework that confirms first nations policing as an essential and a permanent part of Canada's overall policing strategy. In parallel, we are investing in capacity.

What makes the biggest difference now? From our perspective, three practical steps would stabilize the present and build for the future.

Number one is legislative recognition of indigenous policing as an essential service, with clear roles and accountability shared across the orders of government and indigenous governments.

Number two is equitable multi-year funding—operations and capital—with transparent escalators, compensation parity, modern equipment and IT, and dedicated training and wellness supports.

Number three is a growth pathway for communities to seek new services, including start-up capital, staged staffing, integrated training and joint operations protocols, so that new services are built to last.

These steps align with the committee's terms of reference—namely, collaboration across federal, provincial-territorial, municipal and indigenous jurisdictions; addressing systemic barriers; and ensuring indigenous people can enter, thrive and lead in policing.

In closing, indigenous-led policing works. It saves lives. It strengthens trust and reflects the rights and responsibilities of communities to keep people safe. With essential service recognition and equitable tools, we can stabilize existing services and responsibly expand to meet community demand.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear. I welcome your questions on the history, on today's operational realities or on how we can practically design the legislation and funding to deliver safer outcomes for the communities we serve.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Thank you very much, Chief Swamp, for your contribution.

We have one more witness.

We'll now go to Grand Chief Alvin Fiddler of the Nishnawbe Aski Nation.

[Grand Chief Alvin Fiddler, Nishnawbe Aski Nation]

Thank you for allowing me to appear before the committee this afternoon.

My name is Alvin Fiddler. I am the grand chief of the Nishnawbe Aski Nation, representing 49 first nation communities across northern Ontario under Treaty 9 and part of Treaty 5.

Some of you may have heard that two weeks ago we were directed by our leadership to issue a state of emergency on gang violence.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, the interpretation was interrupted.

[Grand Chief Alvin Fiddler]

There's still an ongoing social crisis related to drugs, so we had no choice but to issue that declaration.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

I'm sorry, Grand Chief. We're having a slight problem with our interpretation. If you would just give us a couple of seconds here.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

The interpretation is working now, Mr. Chair. Earlier there was a beeping sound that was potentially harmful for the interpreters and it was interrupting the interpretation.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

I'm sorry, Grand Chief Fiddler, please continue.

[Grand Chief Alvin Fiddler]

Two weeks ago, while we were having our forum in Thunder Bay to talk about policing and justice, one of our communities experienced a very tragic incident involving a shooting where two members of the community were shot by two youth who, we believe, came from the south. One of those community members tragically lost their life and one is still in the hospital.

Just five days later, another community in that territory, Brunswick House, went through a very similar incident where one of their community members was shot twice. Again, we believe it to be gang-related. That community member is still alive and still in the hospital. We hope and pray that he recovers.

Following these tragic incidents, our communities directed us to issue a declaration of emergency because many of our communities are on edge. They are fearful for their own safety. We have seen this pattern of drug dealers coming into our territories and in some cases taking over our communities by intimidation and by force. They carry weapons with them into the communities—guns or whatever weapons they can bring in. We had to issue this declaration of emergency. We've been meeting with our partners on [Technical difficulty—Editor] Canada to follow up on this very serious issue that many of our communities are dealing with.

I was in Ottawa last week meeting with officials from Public Safety Canada. My message to them was that when we renegotiate this agreement on policing, Canada needs to come to the table with a bigger envelope because the negotiations that have happened over the last 35 years have not even come close to meeting the needs of our communities and our police service, NAPS. There's a real need to restart that process to ensure that there's meaningful dialogue and negotiations. It's not just to talk about money, but it's also to talk about the communities' ability to defend themselves, to defend their borders and to ensure that they have access to the resources they need to hire their own security and peacekeepers to complement whatever police services may be operating in their territory, whether it's NAPS or OPP.

We all recognize that the way we've been policing our communities for the last 35 years with this program is not working, so we need to fundamentally change how we do policing in the north and in that territory especially. That's why I'm telling Canada to come to the table with a bigger envelope and also to ensure [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

It looks like we temporarily lost Grand Chief Fiddler.

Chief Fiddler, you are back. You just cut out for probably eight seconds or so.

[Grand Chief Alvin Fiddler]

I'm not sure if you or the committee got my message, but the final point that I wanted to make was that we're urging Canada to come to the table with a bigger envelope—not the way they've been negotiating with us the last 35 years. We need to include all these other pieces in that package.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Thank you very much for your testimony.

Thanks to all our witnesses as well. Now we will start the first round of questioning.

We begin with the Conservatives for six minutes with Mr. Melillo.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for joining us today.

I'd like to start with Grand Chief Fiddler. It's good to see you again, virtually this time.

Grand Chief, you spoke about the state of emergency regarding the drug-related shootings and the gang activity.

Chief Atlookan from Fort Hope said, “This is our daily reality.... Lives are being lost every day in our communities to shootings, to drugs, to violence. If these events were happening in southern Ontario, the response would be immediate and national. For us, there is silence.”

I thought those were very powerful words, Grand Chief. I'd just like to share them and simply ask if you agree with that sentiment.

[Grand Chief Alvin Fiddler]

Thank you for the question.

Chief Solomon Atlookan was part of our gathering here in Thunder Bay. He was one of our speakers when we had our press conference to announce the declaration.

Eabametoong is also under a lot of these social pressures. There have been a number of tragic events there that we don't really hear about in the news. I'm glad he was there to share his concerns, because it's not just in Brunswick House or in Ginoogaming; it's also happening in places like Eabametoong.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

I appreciate that, Grand Chief. I'd like to ask you some questions, if you'll permit me. I appreciate your being here.

You spoke in your opening remarks about the illegal flow of drugs making it into many communities across NAN territory. For people from the south, it might seem counterintuitive. They might not understand how northern communities, many of which are remote and fly-in only, are being infiltrated by this gang activity.

I'm wondering if you could share more about what's happening on the ground with these drug dealers and how that's happening in the remote north.

[Grand Chief Alvin Fiddler]

It's a real challenge for our police service, NAPS, and the OPP operating in Pikangikum, KI and North Caribou Lake to try to stem the flow of these drugs coming in, because people are very creative in how they ship these drugs in. Some of them are boldly chartering planes from Winnipeg in the middle of the night and landing in places like North Spirit Lake or Deer Lake. Some of them use road access and some of them use mail.

That's another important issue that I raised with some of the people I met last week in Ottawa. In my own community, for example, three weeks ago, a huge shipment of cocaine was intercepted at the post office. I forget how big it was. I think it was 160 grams of cocaine.

There are many ways that these drugs are coming in, and we're trying to find ways to equip our police services and communities so they can develop their own ways of security. In Neskantaga, they hired a K9 unit for a two-week period over the summer to try to slow down some of these drugs coming in. A lot of the time, the communities are doing this at their own expense, and they are asking Canada for help to put in place their own peacekeepers and their own security to complement what's already there.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

I think some eyebrows were raised, Grand Chief, when you talked about chartering a plane to fly drugs into a remote community. That's obviously a detectable activity.

I'm wondering if you can speak to how coordination, or the lack thereof, is with other law enforcement agencies to work to address that. Maybe the OPP has thoughts on this as well.

[Grand Chief Alvin Fiddler]

That's always a challenge. I'm sure the OPP representatives who are part of this hearing this afternoon can also speak to that.

It's very organized. We all need to understand how organized they are. Whether they're flying in from Winnipeg or Timmins.... I am in Timmins right now, working with the airlines, and a lack of security at these airports going north is another huge issue.

When you fly anywhere else in the country, you get checked and you go through some sort of security screening area, but when you're flying into and out of our territory, none of that infrastructure is there, which makes it easier for a drug dealer to go through our airports and fly into our communities.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Thank you.

Inspector Kreisz, I appreciate your being here virtually. Obviously, you have a lot of experience in Sioux Lookout and throughout the north. I appreciate all of your service.

I was wondering if you could also speak to that collaboration between the OPP and NAPS, and how that works with a lack of resources.

[Inspector Michael Kreisz, Inspector, Ontario Provincial Police]

Absolutely. It's probably hard to understand how poorly staffed some of these airports are. They typically have staff only when a flight is expected to come in. If it's in the middle of the night, there might be no staff at all working there.

With respect to our relationship with NAPS and our local band security teams, they are very good. We certainly have intelligence officers who work together. I can speak for my communities of North Caribou Lake, Wapekeka and KI, in that we have close relationships with our band security. They are doing checks at their airports. When they are intercepting drugs, they're alerting us immediately. Officers are attending and laying a charge, but I do agree with Grand Chief Fiddler that it is complicated.

For instance, north of Pick Lake, we have an airport that's in the middle of nowhere. There's no staff there whatsoever. You can charter a plane and land in some of these areas completely undetected.