Evidence of meeting #39 for International Trade in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was colombian.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Alex Neve  Secretary General, Amnesty International

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Gentlemen, let us commence this, the 39th meeting of the Standing Committee on International Trade. We're continuing our discussion of Canada-South America trade relations, and more specifically of Canada-Colombia trade relations.

Just by way of providing a road map for today, we're quite pleased to have with us today the Secretary General of Amnesty International. I'd like to go a full hour, despite the fact that we're starting a little late. My sense is that we would go to about 12:10 p.m.; then we have some future business and some routine motions that we have to deal with, operational matters that will take us another ten minutes or so—I hope not any more than that. Then I'm going to ask for an early adjournment, because I know a number of players have some extra stuff on their plates today.

Alex Neve, it's a pleasure to have you join the committee again, on a slightly different twist to the topic this time around. I know you've been busy this week, and I'm pleased that you were able to join us at the committee today.

You know the drill. We're going to start off with an opening statement, if you wish, and then we'll go to questions. Because of the time limitation today, I'm going to ask everybody as usual to stick to seven minutes of questions and answers in the first round and five minutes in the second, and I'm quite sure we'll be able to get through two rounds.

With that, from Amnesty International, I welcome Alex Neve.

11:10 a.m.

Alex Neve Secretary General, Amnesty International

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, committee members. It's a pleasure to be in front of the committee again in the context of your study of Canada-South America trade relations.

I was before the committee back in April 2008 as part of your study of free trade negotiations at the time between Canada and Colombia. At that time, I detailed what we described as a disturbing human rights situation in Colombia, one that was nothing short of a crisis. During the 19 months since, Amnesty International has continued to carry out detailed monitoring of the human rights situation in different regions of the country, and we have had numerous on-the-ground fact-finding visits.

The evidence we've gathered continues to paint a dire picture, certainly not in keeping with claims by the Colombian government and others that the country has overcome its troubled human rights past.

Some indicators of conflict-related violence, such as kidnappings and hostage-taking, for instance, have improved. This means that the security situation for some has perhaps gotten better. However, other important indicators of conflict-related violence have deteriorated.

One of the most worrying trends is a dramatic increase in the number of Colombians forced to flee from their homes. As many as 380,000 people were forced to flee their homes in 2008 alone, an increase of more than 24% from 2007. That brings the total number of internally displaced people in Colombia now to somewhere between three and four million, amongst the highest in the world. Additionally, at least half a million Colombians have fled to other countries. Displacement has become an extreme crisis.

Many of those displaced have been deliberately targeted by guerrilla groups, paramilitaries, or state security forces as part of strategies designed to remove whole communities from areas of military, strategic, or economic importance. The great majority of those affected are small farmers, Afro-descendants, or indigenous peoples, many of whom live in areas of economic interest.

In particular, threats against and killings of indigenous people by all of Colombia's warring parties have increased over the last several years. More than 1,000 indigenous people have been killed in the last six years alone.

As the committee may know, in July of this year, James Anaya, the UN Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms of Indigenous Peoples visited Colombia. His preliminary report repeats some of the conclusions described by his predecessor five years earlier, in 2004, particularly that “Colombia's Indigenous people find themselves in a serious, critical and profoundly worrying human rights situation” and that “this description still applies”, despite some initiatives by the Colombian government.

Among concerns he draws attention to are ongoing violations committed by FARC, such as the massacre of Awá indigenous people, which Amnesty denounced as well in February. He also warns that “extensive corporate interest in the natural resources in Indigenous territory often threatens the rights of Indigenous peoples”.

He highlights that lack of regard for free, prior, and informed consent, as stipulated in international law and Colombia's own constitution, remains a persistent problem.

Amnesty International has issued a series of recent urgent actions about threats and attacks on vulnerable Afro-descendant communities and indigenous peoples that appear aimed at securing control of areas of economic potential.

For instance, on October 9 we issued an urgent action after three indigenous leaders from two reservations in Risaralda received a threat that said “You have 5 working days to withdraw...otherwise we will kill your families”. It was signed the “Southern Bloc”. The threat from this paramilitary group came a few days after the Risaralda Indigenous Regional Council had launched a report in which the indigenous communities said they are being driven out of their lands by powerful people looking to exploit the area's significant mineral resources. The indigenous leaders fled from the area in order to protect the lives of their families.

Then, on October 22, a fax signed by the paramilitary group Black Eagles New Generation arrived at the Valle del Cauca office of the Trade Union Congress, known by its acronym CUT. It warned that members of the CUT in that area were now military targets. The threat stated, “it is necessary to expand the fight against those who hide in social organizations such as CUT Valle, human rights defenders, NGOs.” It specifically accused the trade unionists of stopping economic development and progress by opposing “entry for the multinationals”. The death threat named others as well, including the group the Black Communities Process, whose leader, Carlos Rosero, I believe you heard from on Tuesday of this week.

These and countless similar cases make it abundantly clear that paramilitary groups continue to operate in many parts of the country, sometimes in collusion with sectors of the security forces, despite government claims that they had all laid down their arms following a government-sponsored demobilization that began in 2003. In fact, Amnesty International's information suggests that these groups, which have adopted a variety of names, appear to have become more organized and consolidated over the last year.

We have also documented a worrying increase in the use of death threats against human rights defenders, again attributed mostly to paramilitary groups.

In March, a fax signed by the Capital Bloc of the Black Eagles paramilitary group arrived at the office of the internationally respected Colombian Commission of Jurists, accusing one of their lawyers, Lina Paola Malagon Diaz, of being a “bitch guerrilla working for the defence of trade unionists”. The note said that paramilitaries were looking for her and for members of her family. She was given this warning: “Leave or we will kill you. You have one day to leave Bogota and do not come back.” She did flee the country. Notably, she had produced a report about human rights violations against Colombian trade unionists by all sides in Colombia's armed conflict, which was used in a hearing in the U.S. Congress a few weeks before that.

More than a dozen human rights defenders and 46 trade unionists were killed in 2008 alone. The scope and gravity of ongoing attacks and threats against trade unionists or those who speak out about violations of the rights of trade unionists is clear. It does not come down to a mere matter of statistical analysis. I think much is always made of the numbers when we talk about these issues, but I would urge you to recognize that this is about quantity and quality, not just quantity. I would urge you to keep that in mind as you analyze arguments you hear from other witnesses, for instance, who do bring it down to simply a statistical consideration, many of whom do not have particular expertise in the area of human rights monitoring.

We and others remain gravely concerned about what the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights described in her March report, that “The worrying practice by some senior Government officials of publicly stigmatizing human rights defenders and trade union members, as biased and sympathetic to guerrilla groups, continued.”

This same concern has been highlighted following recent high-level UN human rights visits to Colombia, including by the special rapporteur on the situation of human rights defenders in September and the special rapporteur on extrajudicial executions in June.

The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights has also stressed that such comments from senior government officials not only increase the risks that human rights defenders face, but “could suggest that the acts of violence aimed at suppressing them in one way or another enjoy the acquiescence of the governments”. Indeed, death threats, attacks, and even assassinations have often followed such public statements.

As this committee will know, human rights defenders who are under threat have long enjoyed a comprehensive program of assistance from the government. But in April of this year, a media investigation revealed that the civilian intelligence service, the DAS, which answers directly to the Colombian president and was the agency responsible for providing bodyguards and other protection to human rights defenders, has for at least seven years carried out a massive illegal espionage operation—including surveillance and wiretapping—against human rights defenders and others, including opposition politicians, judges, and journalists, with an aim to “restrict or neutralize their work”. Members of the diplomatic community, the United Nations, and foreign human rights organizations, including Amnesty International, were also targeted.

There is much more at play as well. The “parapolitical” scandal continues with 80 congress people, most belonging to parties from the ruling coalition, under criminal investigation for alleged links to paramilitary groups. Several magistrates investigating that case have been threatened, placed under surveillance, and had their communications intercepted.

Revelations in 2008 that the security forces had extrajudicially executed dozens of young men have now led to investigations by the attorney general's office of some 2,000 extrajudicial executions carried out over the last two decades. However, lawyers working on these cases, as well as a number of witnesses and family members of those killed, have been threatened and attacked.

Those are the immense challenges of confronting impunity in high-profile cases. More widely, justice remains the exception and impunity the norm, giving a green light to those who continue to abuse human rights.

So considering all of these concerns--and there's much I've left out--in the context of the free trade agreement, Amnesty International's key recommendation has remained the same for several years. We believe it is of critical importance that the agreement be subject to an independent human rights impact assessment, certainly before passage of Bill C-23, and that any negative findings be adequately addressed before proceeding further with the legislation and the entry into force of the deal.

We were pleased that this committee also called for an independent human rights impact assessment in its June 2008 report. We also have recommended that the deal not be finalized and that Bill C-23 not be passed until we have in place enforceable standards for Canadian companies operating abroad, which we of course hope will soon be the case if Bill C-300 becomes law. I must stress that we do not consider the hearings you are conducting now nor the more comprehensive hearings on Bill C-23 that would follow second reading of the bill to constitute that independent human rights impact assessment. The assessment would be an expert process that would take place outside of the parliamentary context. We would, however, very much urge that any body conducting such an assessment report back to Parliament.

In the context of grave and systematic human rights violations in Colombia and a pattern of ongoing serious abuses in areas of economic interest, an independent human rights impact assessment of the provisions of the trade agreement is, in our view, an essential step of due diligence. While it is not yet standard practice, there is growing interest in this tool, and there is a growing body of practical examples, analysis, proposals, and academic work to draw upon. Notably, even at the World Trade Organization, there's now significant discussion about this. In September, there was a session at the WTO's public forum in Geneva, moderated by counsel at the office of the WTO director general, entitled “Human Rights Impact Assessments: A Pertinent Tool for Informing and Improving Trade Governance?”

In 2006, Thailand's National Human Rights Commission considered the potential future human rights impacts of the free trade agreement that Thailand had been negotiating with the U.S. In 2007, the Ecumenical Advocacy Alliance, in collaboration with the FoodFirst Information & Action Network, commissioned studies to consider the impact of trade liberalization on the right to food for rice farming communities in Ghana, Honduras, and Indonesia. The European Union systematically conducts economic, social, and environmental impact assessments of all major multilateral and bilateral trade negotiations. These are known as sustainability impact assessments. And over the last decade the United Nations Environment Programme has developed an impact assessment methodology that incorporates integrated environmental, economic, and social assessment.

Finally, I do want to highlight that Canadians are concerned about this. For instance, I have here a copy of a photo petition put together by a member of Amnesty International in Edmonton. She gathered the pictures of hundreds of Canadians from communities across the country, of diverse backgrounds, all of whom believe an independent human rights impact assessment is essential. This petition has already been sent both to the Prime Minister and to all three party leaders in the opposition.

In ending, I do feel I must signal some disquiet and concern about the way in which debate about the Canada-Colombia deal is progressing. It is certainly our hope and expectation that sessions held as part of this committee's general study of Canada's trade relations with South America will not in any way substitute for thorough and rigorous consideration of Bill C-23 itself when it is referred to committee. At that time, we urge that the committee hear from a full slate of balanced witnesses representing all relevant stakeholders, certainly including the most vulnerable sectors of Colombian society likely to feel the impact of this deal. Among others, Amnesty International would welcome an opportunity to appear at that time and offer specific recommendations with respect to Bill C-23 itself.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Those are my comments.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Thank you.

We're going to begin this first round of questioning. Again, there will be seven minutes for questions and answers to each of our members in the first round, and we're going to begin with Mr. Brison.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Thank you, Mr. Neve, for being here with us today.

You've quoted the UN special rapporteur on the situation of human rights defenders. You've quoted the UN a number of times, and I agree that the UN is credible in this, but I'd like to quote the special rapporteur, Margaret Sekaggya, who said, on September 18, 2009:

I...want to commend the Government for the significant improvement in the overall security situation in the country since 2002. Respect for the right to life and the exercise of fundamental freedoms for Colombian citizens have improved.

I want to commend the Government for designing policies and strategies for the protection of human rights defenders.

Furthermore, following the November 2008 visit to Colombia, the UN Secretary-General's representative on human rights of internally displaced people, Walter Kälin, acknowledged a high rate of forced displacement in certain parts of the country, but noted that “important developments have taken place since his earlier mission to Colombia in 2006, noting especially the constructive role of the Constitutional Court in shaping the national response to forced displacement.” He cited the government's “significant increase in...budgetary resources, as well as programming efforts that have resulted in better access to education and health care”.

According to Kälin, “The reasons for forced displacement...are multiple and complex”, including “the lack of respect” for international humanitarian laws “by various armed groups”, including guerrilla groups such as FARC and ELN, “the multiplication of armed actors and criminal activities in the wake of” paramilitary demobilization—in other words, remobilizing his drug gangsters—and “the forced recruitment” by illegal armed groups, “threats and pressures to collaborate” with the illegal armed groups, narco-trafficking activities, to name a few.

What started largely as an ideological battle over 40 years ago—and FARC is part of that—has become a drug war. Why do you think somebody in a poor Colombian community would get involved in FARC or with drug gangsters? Why do you think people get involved in that today, if it's not ideological?

11:30 a.m.

Secretary General, Amnesty International

Alex Neve

I'm sure the explanations for that would be a multitude of different motivations. I think, number one, it's important to highlight that many very studiously seek not to become involved--not to become involved in either side of that conflict.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that they can't make a living?

11:30 a.m.

Secretary General, Amnesty International

Alex Neve

I think it absolutely would be the case for some. For others, it would be because they feel terrorized and intimidated. For others, it just seems like maybe it would be a fine thing to do. For others, there may still be a bit of ideology involved.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Do the drug gangsters and FARC have any labour agreements guiding their work? Do they have any labour standards? Is there a set of labour or environmental standards between Canada and the FARC, as an example?

I'm trying to determine whether we have much influence over labour standards in the current situation.

11:30 a.m.

Secretary General, Amnesty International

Alex Neve

Clearly, neither the FARC nor drug gangs in Colombia have labour standards or other standards with respect to fundamental human rights, and that's long been one piece of the very worrying human rights story in Colombia and another reason why we have to be so careful and cautious as we move into any kind of trading relationship, because they are part of the picture. Even though they wouldn't be a party to the deal, clearly their operations and the ways in which they abuse communities and whatnot have a real impact in economic situations.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Absolutely. But if we determine—and I think there's some agreement between us here—that the drug wars are responsible for a lot of the violence, displacement, and abuse of human rights in Colombia, and if we accept that we currently have no influence on those, and with labour and environment agreements that are the most robust we've ever signed between two sovereign governments, how does a rules-based system that guides legitimate trade, number one, and, secondly, the growth of legitimate trade, which offers the poor and underprivileged in Colombian communities an option to make a living outside of the drug trade, have the capacity to make things worse? I'm trying to understand.

I share with you and your organization the belief that we must work to make things better, but I'm trying to understand how legitimate trade with a rules-based system could make things worse.

11:30 a.m.

Secretary General, Amnesty International

Alex Neve

As a starting point, I think we have to highlight that while drug-related violence is absolutely a key part of what's playing out in Colombia, it's not the only part. Our information and some of the recent examples I highlighted for you clearly demonstrate that there are very serious violence and human rights abuses connected with struggle for control of areas that are seen to be high in economic potential, mineral wealth, etc.

One of the concerns is that as that level and nature of investment increases, and the interest of paramilitary groups, the FARC, and even those associated with some of the more shadowy drug gangs, in having control of those areas of land to be able to benefit from the increased economic activity and mineral wealth increases, if we don't have in place some meaningful measures, real commitments, and effective oversight that's going to ensure the Colombian government provides protection to people who are marginalized in those contexts, then it does very much stand the possibility of making things worse.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

I appreciate that.

My colleague Mr. Silva has a question.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

I'm sorry, that's seven minutes. There will be another round.

Monsieur Cardin.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning and welcome, sir.

You appeared before the committee not that long ago. You said at that time that you would not take a position on a possible free trade agreement or any other economic or trading approach. You also said that free trade agreements were neither inherently good nor bad but that it was necessary to implement policies to protect both the environment and human rights. In conclusion, you made the same recommendations as the committee did in its report, recommendations that were strongly endorsed by the Liberals. And we are still counting on their support, for that matter. Clearly, we need to follow up on and assess all of the mechanisms in place to protect human rights before the agreement is signed once and for all.

Certain parties in this committee often point to the fact that side agreements on labour rights and the environment exist. I want to read you an excerpt from a study done in 2004 by the Corporate Engagement Project and commissioned by the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. I am quoting it loosely:

“The study did not reach the conclusion that it was possible to operate in Colombia without feeding or exacerbating the conflict, even with good corporate practices. It is clear that companies can positively influence the social and economic aspects of society. However, a part of the resources that a company helps generate can also fund many sides of the conflict through contracts, extortion, especially among contractors and staff, or corruption. For instance, it would be difficult, if not impossible, for a corporate presence not to attract illegal armed groups, given the social unrest in Colombia. Hence, that may represent the largest liability for any investment in Colombia.”

You recommend, as did the report, that we monitor the situation closely. It is said that investment is absolutely necessary, but it turns out that, given the situation, investment could serve to worsen the conflict. If you have come across or read that study, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

11:35 a.m.

Secretary General, Amnesty International

Alex Neve

I don't know that particular study, but I certainly do share those concerns. We have said all along that the reason we need to have a human rights impact assessment is to understand those sorts of concerns and then make decisions as to whether it could be possible. Be it in the context of Colombia or some other country, the concerns are so deeply entrenched in the systems of governance in the country, etc., that at this time there is no possible way to go forward with the proposed free trade deal in a way that would adequately safeguard let alone not worsen the human rights situation.

It may also be that the impact assessment would highlight the concerns you've pointed to but also make some recommendations: given those concerns about ways in which investment might fuel the conflict, here are the sorts of oversight and monitoring mechanisms that need to be put in place, here's a different approach to how royalties and revenues being generated by that investment should be dealt with, the kind of transparency we need to see with respect to those moneys, and if that is all in place, investment can go ahead in a way that will be good for the economy, good for social progress, and also good for human rights. That's what the human rights impact assessment teaches us.

11:40 a.m.

Bloc

Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC

People frequently mention side agreements.

Let's take an example. If a complaint arose under a side agreement, a departmental committee would be set up to ensure that the commitment in question was being respected. But the last resort, under a process that need only be initiated by one of the parties, cannot be used except in the case of a trade violation. I want to point that out. The party who is at fault would be required to put money in a fund.

Sanctions set out under environmental and labour agreements may seem weak, especially to the extent that it is up to each party to protect its own investors and that human rights violations cannot be likened to unlawful comparative advantages. Consequently, this tips the balance of power between the two states against environmental and labour interests.

We know that Canada's trade relationship with Colombia is complementary, not competitive. As a result, agreements that do not give rise to cooperative advantages do not hold any water as far as labour and the environment go, and cannot be used to improve working conditions or the environment.

How do you see the issue?

11:40 a.m.

Secretary General, Amnesty International

Alex Neve

We were aware of the fact that the side deals exist, and from a human rights perspective, we've looked more closely at the labour side deal, given that labour rights are human rights and certainly many of the aspects covered in that deal do touch on human rights concerns. We think it is a good step forward. Whether or not that itself is adequate to deal with the very serious labour-related violations that continue to be a daily reality in Colombia is not yet clear to us. Again, we think that side deal itself should be part of the human rights impact assessment.

We have highlighted that so many of the human rights concerns associated with this deal simply aren't within the ambit of either of those side deals, and even as you highlighted, with respect to some of the concerns that arise around labour-related issues, given the specific wording of what sorts of labour-related concerns would or would not trigger the jurisdiction of the processes under the trade deal, it is not even clear that the full range of labour-related concerns would be covered by that arrangement. A lot is completely left off the table.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Mr. Julian.

November 26th, 2009 / 11:40 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks, Mr. Neve, for coming forward.

I think all committee members have very clearly heard your request to come before the committee when we have a real study as opposed to the phantom study. As you know, this bill has not even been referred to the committee for further study. It would be very important to make sure Amnesty International is back if Parliament decides to study this bill further.

I want to start off on the issue of studies. The Colombian government has, of course, produced studies that have been discredited. There was a visit earlier this week on a study that supposedly was done with ENS figures, but ENS has very clearly discredited that paper, both in hearings here and in the evening as well, in Ottawa.

There is nothing to back up the proponents of this agreement. There are, of course, a great number of studies, including the Amnesty study, Human Rights Watch, CENSAT, the Colombian Commission of Jurists, and others.

As part of their due diligence, what should members be reading to have a full understanding of the importance of having this independent and impartial human rights assessment?

11:40 a.m.

Secretary General, Amnesty International

Alex Neve

I think you should be reading as much as you can. I know that's an enormous task because Colombia is a country where the wealth of material and information is considerable. I think what you want to focus on is information from sources and organizations that are independent, impartial, and expert. I'll be boastful enough to include our organization on that list.

We do not have political associations. As I've repeatedly made clear in this committee and elsewhere, we do not have a vested interest around trade policy. We don't have a position for or against free trade. We have decades and decades of expertise monitoring the human rights situation. I think it's organizations such as that, and UN agencies as well.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

You're referencing the Amnesty International study, Colombia: killings, arbitrary detentions, and death threats--The reality of trade unionism in Colombia.

11:45 a.m.

Secretary General, Amnesty International

Alex Neve

That's one of a multitude of reports, yes.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Thank you.

I'm going to move on to the next question, to the concerns you've raised around DAS, which is an arm of the Colombian government that provided espionage and surveillance of the people who supposedly were being protected by the Colombian government. Do you have evidence you could offer today, or if not, could you give to the committee at a later date evidence of cases where the so-called protection of some members, human rights advocates or labour activists in Colombia, led to threats or violence against others whose names came up as a result of that surveillance? In other words, was the Colombian government deliberately using protection of a small number of activists to get at other activists through their paramilitaries?

11:45 a.m.

Secretary General, Amnesty International

Alex Neve

I absolutely can. I don't have the specifics here, but I know those cases exist.

I would highlight, as a follow-up on that DAS concern, that as a result, DAS is no longer providing security to human rights defenders. Instead the program has had to resort to making use of private security firms in Colombia. A whole host of new concerns is emerging with that as well because there's a well-documented past pattern of former paramilitary members ending up being employed by many of those private security firms. It's become an awful maze for human rights defenders in Colombia of not really knowing whom they can trust or turn to for this protection.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

I congratulate Amnesty International for doing this work.

What you could be seeing is a paramilitary by night who by day is being employed to potentially protect that person who may be targeted.