Justice Committee on March 29th, 2010

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

All right. That's leads me to my next area of enquiry. I've had an article from the Toronto Star sitting in front of me. It talks about a young sixteen-year-old Somali man at a high school in Edmonton who was approached to sell drugs: “Speechless for a moment, Yusuf says he smiled and declined.”

He was one of the others, not the small percent but the very many, who have the intelligence and possession of mind not to get involved in gangs. Yet he would be subject to the same issues around integration, religion, and colour as everyone.

How do you distinguish that? All of these young people are faced with the same problems, but it's only a small minority who become involved in drugs. What do see as the reasons for the success of the majority compared to those who don't succeed in resisting gangs?

[Mahamad Accord]

For us, even though only a small minority are involved, one young death is too many.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Oh, I know, but what is the cause?

[Mahamad Accord]

What I mean to say is that the young men who are dying get our attention, then we look at ourselves and ask what the problem is.

We found out there is a pond of crime over here, but so many fish get in. So unless we dry out, using every available tool....

Also, we looked at some of our communities living in other places, such as England. We noticed that this problem is not something that goes away. Our communities have been in England for three generations, for the last 200 years, but they still have the same issues that we face here, even though we are new to Alberta. So what we are seeing is bigger than that.

Also, the only city that addresses this issue, we think, is Toronto, where the federal government has supported a program through which the Jewish community offers us some of the training...those who graduate. We are lacking people who can mentor us. You can graduate with a degree and work in Tim Hortons. That's a problem.

We have people who move out and counterbalance the negatives we have. That's where we are focusing.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I think that's an excellent suggestion, but I guess I'm going to take some issue with the suggestion that the source of the problem has to do with colour or religion.

We have at this table an example of a young woman over there, Ms. Chamut, who is white, and I don't know of what religion, but she still became involved in gangs because of the need to belong. We've also heard about the Irish gangs in New York.

I suspect the situation would be better approached by looking at how we can reach the individuals, or as Ms. Mendes said, deal with those interior problems rather than attempting to suggest system-wide issues. At least that would be my feeling.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Mr. Woodworth, I'm going to have to cut you off there, as we're completely out of time.

I just wanted to ask one last question of Ms. Chamut.

I appreciated your testimony, and that of all of you.

Do you have any idea how much child trafficking is actually going on?

[Norma Chamut]

Oh, that's a huge question, because how do you go into individual homes where it's being done? You'll find the occasional mother who is very addicted to drugs and who will sell her two-, three-, four- or five-year-old child. I have no idea how you would even put a figure on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Were you part of organized crime? Were you part of a biker gang or some other group?

[Norma Chamut]

The man I was with at the time was in the motorcycle club and burned to death in 1985. Since then I haven't been around. But yes, I was part of an organized motorcycle club, the Grim Reapers. They no longer fly their colours. They are now all Hells Angels in Alberta.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

To both of you, I just have a last question.

We had earlier testimony from an inner city worker who said that of all the gang members he was aware of, only one came from a nuclear family. All the other ones came from single-parent families.

Would that accurately reflect what's happening within the Somali community or in your experience?

[Norma Chamut]

I know lots of people who had mothers and fathers and were well off. I don't believe there are set criteria for a person who ends up in a gang or on the street.

I believe it's all races, ethnic groups, levels of society, whether it's poverty, middle-income, or extreme wealth. I've seen it in all three. I've seen it in all stands.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Mr. Accord.

[Mahamad Accord]

For us, I think for the majority of them, the family unit is no longer there. But also, in the same amount, we found families where the father or mother were present.

So we cannot say that's the case, but at the same time, we can see that even those families who stayed together still faced stress that contributed to those youths being involved with drugs, because there was a lack of opportunity within the community and the fathers may have worked long hours.

It's still the same thing: the single-unit family is the case.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Okay.

Thank you to all of you. Your evidence has been very helpful. It will form part of the public record.

We are adjourned.