Evidence of meeting #7 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gang.
2:45 p.m.
Former Chief Justice of the Court of Queen's Bench of Alberta, As an Individual
So things do change, and that's the difficulty.
We have to be very careful about trying to just be expeditious, but I think we can do something in the evidentiary section to make sure that the onus of proof is such that you only need a prima facie case to say that, yes, this organization, in this particular case at this particular time, was a criminal organization when this event occurred.
I think that's about as far as you can go.
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
Thank you.
I want to thank you for your evidence. It's helpful, and it will form part of the record. We hope to issue a report in the next few months. So thank you.
2:45 p.m.
Former Chief Justice of the Court of Queen's Bench of Alberta, As an Individual
I look forward to reading it.
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
We'll recess for a couple of minutes. Then we'll meet our next witnesses.
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
I will reconvene the meeting.
This is the meeting of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. We're continuing our study on organized crime.
We have with us a number of witnesses for our last panel of the day. You basically have over an hour and a half of our time, so each of you can present for up to 10 minutes, and then we'll open the floor to questions from our committee members.
Monsieur Accord, you will start.
2:55 p.m.
Mahamad Accord President, Alberta Somali Community Center
Thank you for inviting me to this event.
I know that this committee is focusing on justice and human rights. In our community, when it comes to justice, we always look to the social issue side.
Today I am speaking on behalf of Alberta's Somali community to share our experience and the nightmare that we have been through and are still going through.
The Somali community left their homeland for fear of persecution, for fear for their lives and the lives of the other members, but the community finds themselves once again in this position: they feel they are back where they came from--from the nightmare of terror, fear, and the reluctance to trust anyone. They feel they are back in Somalia.
The Alberta Somali community is undergoing growing pain relative to being new immigrants in this part of Canada. There are many obstacles preventing full integration of the larger Alberta Somali community. However, the deaths of Canadian men of Somali heritage in Alberta in the last three years have changed our community life forever as we know it as Canadians. We also mourn deeply not only our young men but also the loss of a sense of security as citizens of Canada, the sense that somehow we were protected from this kind of terrible attack. In many ways the impact has been felt even more deeply by many of our members who have been mischaracterized, with our human rights protection eroded, which is central throughout this country.
We are experiencing youth violence and recruitment by organized crime organizations. We are deeply, deeply seeking peace and safety, as are all other communities. Some of my members are saying enough is enough--enough with the victimization, enough with the injustice.
Somehow we feel that we are foreign to our country. We are Albertan. We are Canadian. We feel we are here for the same reason that our ancestors came here, for fear of persecution, for freedom of religion, and so on, yet our community does not experience the core value of being Canadian, which is freedom and justice for all. I am hoping that this committee, at the end of the day, will do something about this.
To give you our brief history here in Alberta, we estimate that the Alberta Somali community is between 30,000 and 35,000. We live mainly in Calgary, Edmonton, Fort McMurray, and Grande Prairie. About 50% of our community are first-generation immigrants and 50% are Canadian-born; 84% are younger than 35 years of age, and 97% of us are Muslims.
In Alberta, Somali history is that 70% came between 2003 and 2005, and 18% arrived between 2006 and 2009. The majority of us are second-generation immigrants from other provinces, mainly Ontario, Quebec, and British Columbia. There are others who came as refugees or through other steps.
The biggest challenge of our community at present is lukewarm to hostile reception in Alberta. Despite the fact that we were allowed into Canada in the beginning as an invitation, we feel that the other door that leads to full participation has been closed to us.
There is a Somali proverb that says you don't enter an open door, you enter because there is an open face. This open face is not here for our community. After we came through the first gate, our welcome ended there. It has been a struggle ever since.
Some in our community say that the challenge, after full 30 years of living in Canada, 10 years in Alberta, is how to deal with the systemic barriers that block opportunity, not only from the first generation of Somali Canadians, who were trained in Somalia, but also the young generation who went to a Canadian university and are still not finding opportunities for employment in Alberta.
Then you run into difficulty. For example, your children could be integrated faster than you, through knowing the language and so on. You want to teach your children the culture and to help them adjust in a new environment, but when you are working long hours with no support, that's difficult to do.
Also, when parents are frustrated by unemployment or underemployment, that affects the children. If they see their father, who is an engineer, doing a minimal job, then the kid will probably ask why they should go to university if it didn't help their father or their big brother. So that is a factor.
If 80% of our members are below the age of 35, then there is a critical need to focus on youth. Youth are disillusioned by the fact that their fathers are unemployed and working in a minimal job, despite their having several degrees, while many in the mainstream are prospering. In frustration, the young men drop out of school, feeling there is no point in getting an education.
Or even worse, they are in trouble with the law. One of the things that happen is that because the home area becomes so violent, it's affecting the youth, especially the boys, so some parents send their boys back to Somalia. It's interesting to see parents sending their sons to the unsafe environment that they themselves ran away from. They believe that in that environment at least their children won't be involved with the criminal justice system and organized gangs. A good question to ask then is what that says about Canada.
I interviewed one of the young men, and this is what he told me: The term “Somali” does not make sense to me. I grew up in this culture, where I was known, so I have my identity intact. I don't think that label describes me. Therefore, I disregard it when I hear it. However, I'm worried for my children. They are growing up in this society, and I'm afraid that they will internalize the negativity that comes with this term, “Somali”, not “Canadian”, and it will limit them somehow.
There are theories that say it is quite important in socializing youth for children to know their background so they have a sense of belonging, because they won't see themselves reflected in the social structure they live in right now, in other areas of society. But when young people identify with their parents' homeland more than they identify with where they were born, this shows that they don't feel acceptance in their country. In other words, it's not that young Somalis don't want to be Canadian; they feel they are not accepted as a Canadian by their government and their peers.
Currently the attitude toward the police is not seen as...the attitude toward the youth, the attitude toward the police, is not seen as universally helpful. Many in the Alberta Somali community have concern, especially with the disproportionate number of Somali youth in jail. People believe there are three reasons for that: racial profiling, lack of programs, and poor opportunity for an economic advantage. However, some progress has been made in Edmonton in working with the police and RCMP. In Edmonton, the police are working to reach out to the community.
We are trying to reduce the youth violence in our community by trying to include ourselves in the mainstream society. However, we are trying to address enhancing the supports in terms of social issues by enhancing supports for individuals and families and community to experience inclusion and increase their access to resources and opportunities--building an inclusive environment of support and network.
We are also trying to educate them and empower them by focusing on the various fora that animate the criminal justice system--the school system, the social system, and the justice system.
On the other side, we are trying to enhance the support for increasing first access and resources for opportunity--developing youth strategies to enhance opportunity for Alberta Somalis, giving youth better access to community programs, and providing increased availability for cultural components of health.
However, our community is building a positive future here in Canada. Despite all the trials and turbulence we're facing in Alberta now and have encountered in the past--and will probably encounter in the future--that positive outlook does prevail, as does our ability to give to society itself, not just in the community existing amongst ourselves.
Alberta Somalis are future-oriented. Much importance is placed on the success of the children and youth in the community. A better future is what they are looking for: hard work, pooling resources, community asset building, mentors, and also better financial security.
You can see all of the work the Somali community is doing without any outside help. The community is now moving forward. We are getting used to the idea that we are here to stay, that we need to work harder to make Alberta and Canada our home, and to put in place an institution that will support our community.
After 30 years, people are finally saying they have to unpack their bags, buy homes, and make permanent plans for their future in Alberta and Canada.
Thank you.
3:05 p.m.
Professor Harpreet Aulakh Assistant Professor, Department of Justice Studies, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
Good afternoon, everyone.
Thank you for the invitation to be here. My presentation today will focus on whether youth gangs are progressing into criminal organizations.
The level of youth gang organization varies from gang to gang. Therefore, the approach to dealing with them should be regional, and, more importantly, age-specific. This comes from my research as a doctorate student with the youth gangs in Saskatoon and here in Edmonton, which were predominantly aboriginal youth gangs, and exposure to Calgary gang scenarios in the last two years.
Youth gangs continue to be a pervasive problem. They add to the violent crime, instill fear, and engage in a range of troublesome behaviours that can be anywhere from gang graffiti to drug dealing.
Gangs have been around for a long time. It is possible that at least some of these gangs are changing and developing into criminal organizations. From the law enforcement perspective, youth gangs are changing in many ways that create problems. Earlier, many gangs were widely described as disorganized groups. However, under optimum conditions, loosely organized groups can naturally evolve to a mature form.
Research on the evolution of organizations suggests that successful organizations grow in size and become more organized, but can this be applied to youth gangs? There is very little gang research from a Canadian perspective, and within that, very little attention has been paid to the mechanism of how gangs evolve over time.
Classic research addressed this briefly and indicated that specific street gangs have integrated into criminal organizations, but this does not appear to be a predominant pattern. One example of such transformation is Fresh Off the Boat and Fresh Off the Boat Killers in Calgary. These groups exemplify the evolution from a relatively less organized group of high school kids involved in dial-a-dope operations to a formal criminal organization. Police and media reports suggest that these groups are viewed as organized crime threats because they are heavily involved in illegal drugs and use violence in pursuing their objectives. Their activities as always have resulted in criminal networks that cross regional and national boundaries. They use modern weapons, communication technology, and sophisticated armoured transportation in their operations.
On the contrary, most aboriginal street youth gangs in Saskatoon and in Edmonton are very loosely knit. A reason for group cohesion among them is commitment to their 'hood and resistance to the outsiders. Leadership is mostly less centralized, less radical, and even situational at times. It is created based on age, and older gang members serve as their role models.
Much of the indication that gangs may be transforming into criminal organizations is subjective. It has been either suggested by media coverage or the reactive approaches of law enforcement agencies. High-profile cases, such as Jackie Tran's here in Calgary, last year's New Year's Day shootings in Calgary, and Alberta's...enforcement of Victims Restitution and Compensation Payment Act reinforced these concerns.
The media coverage of youth gang violence and political reaction contribute to perceptions that gang problems are becoming increasingly serious and more organized. Youth gangs are not committees, teams, or task forces. Young-man members are close to each other to fulfill individual needs, many collective and some contradictory. They do not assemble to achieve or share previously...[Inaudible--Editor]. The group rewards like status, excitement, recreation, and protection are imperative motivations for joining a gang. Gangs offer, along with money, fun and excitement through hanging out together and attending parties, as well as opportunities to fit in with the popular kids. Activities and contacts are highly valued during the teenage and adolescent years.
Further, the scarcity of recreational activities in low-income inner city neighbourhoods leaves youngsters to be friends with gang members.
Violence within the context of gangs is an avenue for achieving status and respect in the social setting, where legal opportunities for achieving the same are very limited. From the young gang member's perspective, gangs provide a unique social service to them. The reactive law enforcement approaches fail to consider that.
From a legal perspective, gangs are all about organized crime. The Criminal Code does not provide a definition of a gang. It only defines a criminal organization.
If we look at the definition of a criminal organization, three or more young people who intentionally get together to do a break and enter, or to do a car theft, or to buy drugs in order to sell to their friends at a party, or to take joints to the party are probably involved with criminal organizations. To remain in business, organized crime groups such as drug alliances must have strong leadership, systems of loyalty, sanctions for failure to follow the rules, and business capabilities. On the contrary, many youth gangs are wobbly, with short-lived leadership, transitory membership, and informal rules for the members.
Focusing on the criminal future of youth gangs suggests that law enforcement directed at particular criminal behaviour will work primarily for gangs that are specialized, but most youth gangs are not. Increased prosecution of youth gang members as a direct or indirect result of harsher punishment may be suitable for only a few.
On the contrary, with a loose definition of “gangs”, where gangs are interpreted as criminal organizations by law enforcement and the public, we will once again end up putting more young people in prison, and for longer durations--
3:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
Ms. Aulakh, I'm going to ask you to slow down a little bit. Our interpreters are having trouble following.
3:15 p.m.
Prof. Harpreet Aulakh
Okay.
Clearly, there needs to be more investment in a response to the youth gang problem that takes a broad and holistic preventive approach as opposed to a reactive one, because the meaning of “gangs”, for a youth, is very much different from how the law views gangs.
In the end, I would say we need more evidence-based knowledge to understand if, and which, youth gangs are indeed becoming organized crime groups.
Thank you.
3:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
Thank you.
Next, we'll move to the Prostitution Awareness and Action Foundation of Edmonton.
There are two of you, and you have a total of 10 minutes.
I believe, Ms. Quinn, you're making the presentation.
March 29th, 2010 / 3:15 p.m.
Kate Quinn Executive Director, Prostitution Awareness and Action Foundation of Edmonton
Yes, I am, thank you. My colleague, Norma, will pick up within our 10 minutes.
We thank you very much for this opportunity. I would like to recognize our two co-presenters and some of the root issues they brought up with regard to some of the reasons young people become involved in gangs. We certainly recognize those too.
Our mandate deals with prostitution, which we define as sexual exploitation of vulnerable people, male or female, in vulnerable situations. We have a real concern about those who prey upon vulnerable people, those who profit from vulnerable people, and those who exploit them.
We know more through story than through exact statistics about the role of different levels of criminal organizations. When I consulted with my Edmonton Police Service vice unit colleague, he said they didn't have the statistics either. This would be an area in which we would need to do more research and gather that evidence, but we all know the stories.
During my introduction into the area when I got involved in the mid-1990s, I met a young woman who had been taken to the island of Macau by the Triad. Her mother had to raise quite a significant amount of money to buy her back and bring her back to Edmonton.
We also know there are different levels of involvement, some at that disorganized street youth gang level as well. It's easy for those young people to be used by more organized criminal organizations.
In Edmonton we have bylaws dealing with massage and escort services and exotic dancing. Our city put those bylaws in place specifically to enable our police and bylaw workers to monitor for the involvement of organized crime to ensure that young people, those under the age of 18, were not being pulled into any of these, and also to ensure there was no pimping or exploiting going on.
We know at the street level as well that there are different kinds of involvement by organized crime, and no one has a handle on what's happening over the Internet.
I'm now going to defer to my board member, Norma, who will speak from some direct experience.
Thank you.
3:15 p.m.
Norma Chamut Board Member, Prostitution Awareness and Action Foundation of Edmonton
Thank you for inviting me.
This is very different for me. I come from that organized crime side. When I was young I ended up with a motorcycle gang, prostituting, finding other girls to work for them, and that kind of thing.
We talk about organized crime. Kate phoned to ask if I wanted to come to speak. I've been off the street for 10 years now. This is an honour for me. But I have direct knowledge of that from my own lifestyle—from being there, being recruited, and being put out.
They traffic these girls. Even if you're picked up in Edmonton you're still trafficked in all these other cities, because when you're in one city too long you become too well known. You're known meat. You're moved to another city where you're not known, so the police don't get to know who you are.
There are drugs. There are all kinds of different levels of organized crime. You start off at the bottom and build your way up.
The people before us spoke about how you get into it. Poverty's a big one--not fitting in anywhere. A child who was always pushed aside is very drawn to these gangs because they now have a family. They're accepted. They're needed. Whether they're needed to do a hit, hurt someone, score drugs, or sell the drugs, as weird as it seems, they're needed and accepted. I guess gang-level acceptance is what it's called. It would be very hard to end all this stuff.
I sit in this room and listen to people talk about what we could do to make it better. I heard what the judge had to say about how it is. That's why there are lengthy trials and stuff, because you want to know who ratted you out. That's the terminology they use. That's why you have these long trials.
I myself sit and wonder, yes, they pay all this money for these defence lawyers and things. But they got the money from people like me, even, who worked the street for them. It was my money that paid for their defence.
There are so many different things I could talk more about. I don't know exactly what I'm allowed to say and what I'm not allowed to say. I know that we're being recorded and my name will be recorded. I was asked if I was worried about that, because where I come from, it's called wrong to do that. But I don't believe that. I'm not out here speaking about anybody but myself. So I'm really glad to be here.
I'll be more useful answering questions because I don't really know what to say.
That's it. Thanks.
3:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
Thanks to both of you.
We're going to give you an opportunity to answer some questions. We'll start with Ms. Mendes for seven minutes.
3:20 p.m.
Liberal
Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you all for coming to give your time and testimony. I'm sure it's not easy for any of you to do.
I'd like to start with Ms. Chamut, if you will.
How did you manage to disengage from that milieu? How did you get out?
3:20 p.m.
Board Member, Prostitution Awareness and Action Foundation of Edmonton
I just didn't want to do it anymore. I worked the streets for 28 years. I didn't have a retirement fund, or even 5¢ when I left. I was just tired of it.
3:20 p.m.
Liberal
3:20 p.m.
Board Member, Prostitution Awareness and Action Foundation of Edmonton
No, I just didn't want to do it anymore. It's really hard to walk away from it, especially when you've been in it for as long as I was. Everybody thinks you're going to go back. I have a lot of friends who are still involved in organized crime. I still talk to them on a regular basis, but they know where I'm at. One of them said, “Wow, it's pretty weird you're going there. Like, aren't you worried? Aren't you scared?” No.
But as to how I got out, I didn't want it anymore.
3:20 p.m.
Liberal
Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC
We're talking this morning about the whole disaffiliation process, that it is a process.
3:20 p.m.
Board Member, Prostitution Awareness and Action Foundation of Edmonton
Oh, definitely.
3:20 p.m.
Liberal
Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC
It's not something you can do from one day to the other; it's however long it takes.
Would there have been, I don't know, people or institutions that could have helped you do it earlier?
3:20 p.m.
Board Member, Prostitution Awareness and Action Foundation of Edmonton
Now that I'm with PAFFE, I understand that. We go out and work hands-on with women and young men trying to exit out of sexual exploitation. I'm very hands-on with a lot of them. Personally, a lot of them will not access any kind of program because it has to do with the law.
So where I come from, on that side, if you access that, you get labelled as “no good”. Do you know what I mean? It's hard for a lot of people to say they want out.
3:20 p.m.
Liberal
Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC
If I may, Ms. Quinn, you are a non-profit organization, a non-governmental organization, an NGO.
3:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Prostitution Awareness and Action Foundation of Edmonton
We definitely are.
3:20 p.m.
Liberal
Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC
I know that your organization mostly deals with prostitution. But with young people starting to get involved in organized crime, if you approach them from an NGO perspective, is that more efficient? Is that more effective than the law approaching them?