Evidence of meeting #70 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was prostitution.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
No, unfortunately. It just was not humanly possible. It took me a year and a half to consult all of these groups and put all of this together.
However, I would say that this bill is going in the direction that other pan-Canadian groups are asking for, be it aboriginal women, women of Chinese extraction or even men. We talk a great deal about women, but it could also be young boys. From the moment that a human being is a victim of trafficking in Quebec or in Ontario, this affects all of Canada. I would even say that before, this had implications outside of the country. From the moment that one is a victim of trafficking, one is affected by the law.
I did not consult all of Canada's groups. It was not humanly possible.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
That is right.
However, I consulted pan-Canadian groups, such as CATHII. The groups that these people deal with in Canada are informed and they support the bill. My home base is CATHII. CLES has links throughout Canada. Otherwise, these groups are from Quebec.
NDP
Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC
I am pleased to discover that you are aware of the country as a whole.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
I am aware of the entire world, dear sir. I also think about the children in Thailand who are being subjected to these things. It is an odious crime, regardless of which country one is in.
NDP
Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC
There is a blatant lack of resources for our police forces and of knowledge about human trafficking.
Did you come across that during your consultations?
NDP
Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Indeed, it is the case in Montreal, of course, but it is the case throughout the country. Many police forces lack the necessary means. It could be because their programs were not renewed. Of course, laws are needed, but to stop criminals, we need to have police officers on the ground.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Certainly, there is a lack of resources everywhere. There is a lack of resources for investigations. There is a lack of resources to help victims directly. I will talk about Quebec, where a national strategy is needed. I am talking about a strategy for Quebec, like the one that British Columbia established. Indeed, British Columbia has a provincial plan with awareness campaigns. There is an attempt to invest money for shelters.
I think that in Quebec, a national strategy is needed. I know that the current government is holding discussions to establish a national strategy. I hope that that will indeed be the outcome.
In Canada, because we are still talking about Canada, what is needed is a real law on prostitution. The current system is—excuse the term—a bit hypocritical. Indeed, prostitution is declared legal but solicitation is illegal. That does not make any sense, in my opinion. Canada should be one of the most forward looking countries in America. It should imitate Sweden and criminalize the purchase of sexual services and implement a plan, framework legislation, that includes resources and awareness campaigns. Not only should pimps be criminalized, but clients as well.
I think that if we had framework legislation as they do in Sweden or Norway, we would have a strong vision that would be both modern and humane in Canada. I can tell you that I would support it.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace
Thank you.
Our final questioner is Mr. Wilks from the Conservative Party.
Conservative
David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for your presentation today. It's certainly something that is required across Canada.
I fully agree with you on consecutive sentencing. As a retired police officer, I think that's not a bad thing. But that being said, as you're aware, Madam Smith's former bill, Bill C-310, extended extraterritorial jurisdiction for the criminal code in trafficking offences and clarified the definition of exploitation in section 279.04 by creating interpretative tools to assist the courts specifically if someone used or threatened to use force on another person, used coercion, used deception, or abused a position of trust, power, or authority, and as a result of that, exploited another person for the purpose of trafficking offences under the Criminal Code.
Some of the amendments you're proposing overlap some of the recent reforms brought forth in the law by Madam Smith. As a result of that, I'm wondering, when we address this at committee, whether you are okay with amendments that will ensure consistency and clarity with the law that already exists.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Yes, definitely.
As I said at the beginning of my presentation, I did check with our legislative drafters to make sure that the provisions were consistent. Some elements were changed because they already existed in the current code thanks to Ms. Smith's bill. Extraterritoriality is not included in my bill.
As for definitions, the work was done well. We were very careful not to create any overlaps and to ensure that there were no inconsistencies between the definition proposed by Ms. Smith and the new definition. The new definition simply improves on the old one. However, there is one thing to point out. There is one element that is in the English definition but not in the French one. We changed that. So you have to be very careful. I have no problems with amendments that ensure consistency, but you have to be careful; I am being very frank with you. I was very careful to ensure there were no overlaps. The legislative drafter looked at all of that. However, we are all human. We can all make mistakes or forget something. If you see any overlaps and you want to change them, I have no problem with that at all.
I think the main point is to not weaken the bill. Its strength lies in the consecutive sentences, presumption, the international versus national aspect and the special provision on sexual exploitation. I believe that if we keep the substance, the heart and the foundations of the bill, we will have a bill that is very strong. However, if we get rid of all the rest, I believe the bill will be less effective.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Madam Mourani. You did a very good job with lots of passion defending your bill today. Thank you very much.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace
We're going to recess for about three minutes while we change panels. We'll be dealing with witnesses today and for the full meeting on Wednesday of this week, and then for the first hour on Monday. We'll do clause-by-clause consideration in the second hour next Monday.
Thank you very much.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Thank you very much to everyone for having listened to me and thank you for agreeing to have this bill reviewed in committee. I hope to see the bill again in the House of Commons fairly soon.
Thank you very much.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
If anyone wishes to propose amendments, they have up until when to do that?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace
We will be accepting amendments up to.... Well, you can do it on the fly, but it would be nice to have them in by the end of the meeting on Wednesday. Friday is fine, but.... So after you see the witnesses—
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I'm not going to be the one presenting them, so I need to advise my colleagues.