Justice Committee on May 30th, 2017

Evidence of meeting #58 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clause.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Proposals for a Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment, 2017

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Mala Khanna Acting Deputy Assistant Deputy Minister, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Jacqueline Yost Legislative Counsel, Legislative Services Branch, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Mélanie Beaudoin Legislative Counsel, Legislative Services Branch, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Jean-Charles Bélanger Deputy Chief Legislative Counsel, Legislative Services Branch, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Jane Weldon Director General, Marine Safety and Security, Department of Transport

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

I actually have no objection to the proposed MSLA language, but I went back and looked at the defined term that's now being used, “transfer at undervalue”.

This is one for which I have the opposite feeling. The French, I think, is very clear, because we're using “ou en reçoit une qui est manifestement inférieure à la juste valeur marchande de celle qu’il a lui-même donnée”, which I understand very well. In English, we're now saying, “for which the consideration received by the debtor is conspicuously less than the fair market value of the consideration given by the debtor”.

In English, “conspicuously” means something very different. I can understand using “evidently less”, “obviously less”, “plainly less”, or “clearly less”, but “conspicuously” seems to have an intonation that you need to be able to see it. I don't think that means “manifestement inférieure”.

3:55 p.m.

Legislative Counsel, Legislative Services Branch, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Jacqueline Yost

Thank you.

I can assure you that not only drafters work on the legislative council. We have a team of jurilinguists. We also have revisers. We work in teams for the co-drafting, which Canada's very proud of. We do not draft one language version and then translate it into another. The English and the French are equally authoritative and are drafted at the same time, in concert with our colleagues in our sector who also are experts in French and English and equivalencies.

We obviously cannot speak to the drafting of any legislation and the process that went into it, but I can assure the committee that we make every effort to ensure that the English and the French say the same thing, correctly and clearly, for the native speaker. They come up to the same substantive results.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Mr. Nicholson.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

If the terms “gift” and “without adequate valuable consideration” are no longer required, why wasn't this captured the last time we had one of these pieces of legislation? It seems to me the references there go back to 2005, when they changed some of the terminology.

3:55 p.m.

Legislative Counsel, Legislative Services Branch, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Jacqueline Yost

I understand your question. The MSLA is an ongoing process. Not all our client departments are aware of the types of things we attempt to do to bring coherence and consistency through this process. We are constantly reaching out, and we are working to educate people so that when they do find oversights and errors—things such as an institute has changed its name and they need a global amendment—they can come to us, so we can make efficient use of parliamentary time.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Okay.

3:55 p.m.

Legislative Counsel, Legislative Services Branch, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Jacqueline Yost

It was not included in the last one, but we don't have a back date. We don't say that if you didn't catch it by this date, we're not going to do it.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

That's fair enough. Thank you very much.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

I'd like to make one request or recommendation. Having practised in this area of law, I don't think the term “conspicuously less” is the right term in English. I've never seen that word used to clarify something that is less than fair market value. You used the word “conspicuously”. Again, it “plainly”, “obviously”, “clearly”.... I'd ask you to go back and think about that for the next cleanup you do, to see if that is really the right word for “manifestement”, because I don't think it is.

4 p.m.

Deputy Chief Legislative Counsel, Legislative Services Branch, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Jean-Charles Bélanger

We have taken note of your comment, Mr. Chair.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Thank you, but we aren't going to make this change now.

Does anybody have any objections to this clause?

Is clause 9 okay with everyone?

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Okay, we're good with that one.

The bells have started to ring, but we had unanimous consent to go through it when the clerk was helping to get the witnesses.

Is clause 10 okay with everyone?

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Is clause 11 okay with everyone?

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Is clause 12 okay with everyone?

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Is clause 13 okay with everyone?

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Is clause 14 okay with everyone?

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Is clause 15 okay with everyone?

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Is clause 16 okay with everyone?