National Defence Committee on May 9th, 2006

[The Clerk]

The next motion reads as follows:

That the Chair be authorized to hold meetings to receive evidence and to have that evidence printed when a quorum is not present, provided that at least three members are present, including one member of the opposition.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm just wondering if this is a typical kind of motion that's passed at all the different committees.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Yes, it is. This is a routine thing to set a quorum so we can get started at committee meetings without everybody being present. It's something that can be debated and amended, if needed.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Can we bring it forth during the work of the committee?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Yes, I believe it can come forward at any time.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Have you all heard the motion?

(Motion agreed to)

[The Clerk]

Did we get a mover for that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Who moved that? Laurie Hawn.

[The Clerk]

The next routine motion reads as follows:

That the Clerk of the Committee be authorized to distribute to the members of the Committee only documents that are available in both official languages.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Mr. Bachand would like to move that one, I'm sure. And this is something that I think pertains to all committees and something that we try to adhere to at all times. It's important that this happen, and we certainly encourage witnesses or anybody appearing before the committee to make sure they're well prepared and that any presentations they have are in both official languages.

Mrs. Gallant, go ahead.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I'd like to amend that motion by inserting at the end that if there are papers in only one official language that have been given to the clerk, and they are available, that he tell us that they are available so we can pick them up. He's not allowed to distribute them unless they are in both English and French, but sometimes we have documents that are in just one language, and some members of the committee pick them up and others don't, because we don't know they are there.

That's not the wording, but that's the essence of what I'd like added.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Where are these documents that we pick up?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Sometimes the clerk is given documents, but they are only in one official language, and it is incumbent on all members, unless otherwise stated in an amendment, that we go to the clerk to see whether there are any documents. Some members know that there are extra documents but that they haven't been translated, so they have access to more information than other members do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Are you saying, then, that those documents are presented or used during the committee meeting, or after?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

What I'm saying is that if the clerk has extra documentation that is only in one official language, he tell the committee he has them. He's not allowed to distribute them, but he must advise all members of the committee that they exist.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Okay.

Are there any more questions or comments?

Mr. Cannis, go ahead.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just to pick up on that and add to it, it did occur once in meetings in years past, and we were very flexible. I think it had to do with veterans, and they did not have the time and the resources, and with the consent of all members, we were able to do it.

If I may, I would like to just pick up on Mrs. Gallant's comment. As much as the information might be there, it would not be wise, in my view, that it be distributed during the committee sitting, but that members pick it up at the end of committee, because it might create an unfair balance, if you will. If, for example, they are in one of our two languages and one might not be able to read French or English or vice versa, it would create an unfairness in terms of the questioning to the panel. So it should read “to be picked up”.

I don't disagree with “to be distributed or picked up at the end of the committee sitting”, as opposed to “during the committee sitting”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

We have Mr. Bachand next and then Mr. Khan.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I object to a rule concerning the distribution of documents. The rule that currently applies is being bypassed. It does not look good when a document provided only in English is sitting on a table behind us, and those who want a copy must stand up and go get one, because the document will not be distributed.

I, for one, believe that it is all the same. We have always been flexible, but we have always been adamant about the importance of having documents in both official languages. Some members of our party cannot read English. Sometimes, certain members don't even speak English either. Even though there is simultaneous interpretation, it would be unfair to have documents available only in English when there are people who are unable to read and comment on them.

I also object to the fact that documents will be distributed after meetings. The clerk should make a habit of telling witnesses who appear before us that we have an official languages policy and that their documents must be translated.

I am willing to be flexible. It has happened that elderly veterans have travelled here from far away, and did not produce bilingual documents. I know that they would have been heartbroken had we refused to accept their documents when they had gone to the trouble of preparing them.

Please inform us of the exceptional cases, but we do not want to see the rule broken and documents indirectly distributed either before or after a meeting. Documents must be provided in both official languages. Barring the exceptions, we will not accept documents drafted in only one of the two official languages. That is how we see this situation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Next on the list to speak is Mr. Khan.

[Wajid Khan, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I agree with Mr. Bachand. I think the documents, whether they're picked up or distributed, should be in both languages. Exceptions may be made, but with the agreement of Mr. Bachand of the Bloc Québécois.

I think we should make an effort to have all documents in the official languages at all times. There should be no distribution or pick-up, because it is an unfair advantage to those who can speak their language and a disadvantage to those who don't.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Mr. Dosanjh.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I want to thank Ms. Gallant for alerting us to the fact that sometimes documents are present with the clerk, in one or the other language, and not translated.

I agree with Mr. Bachand that we should not be amending the rule. The rule should stand. We all know there's a possibility that documents might be with the clerk, and we can always check to see if there are any we don't know about.

To maintain the spirit of the rationale of why this rule is in place, we should not be amending the rule.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Are there any wrap-up comments, or any rebuttal? Do you still want to bring forward something to amend this, or do you want to leave it as it is? You indicated you would like to amend this procedure.