Natural Resources Committee on April 4th, 2022

[Debbie Scharf]

What I can perhaps say is that there has been a lot of investment, and there continues to be investment, to build up the types of industries we need to bring jobs and prosperity to Canada.

I take your point about different regions of the country having different comparative advantages. I think that's something we need to leverage as a country, to build the types of clean energy industries we need in the future and to have that help inform the types of jobs we'll need to bring to bear to be able to service those industries for economic prosperity.

One thing we are thinking of as a government is about how to work with all of the provinces and territories to be able to look at economic growth from a comparative advantage perspective: What does it mean for Alberta, British Columbia, Ontario or Newfoundland, and then how do we line up the types of jobs behind that?

While that is something that's happening in parallel and in complement to what we're trying to accomplish with the just transition legislation, it is absolutely an important part of how we think about building the types of sustainable jobs we want as a country.

[George Chahal, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

That's great. Thank you for that.

I think Mr. Bates talked a little bit about the clean jobs training centre earlier. With the Future Skills Centre, the clean jobs training centre, in talking to many businesses here, they say that as they transitioned to find new employees in the tech sector, it was because they had such skilled labour from the oil and gas sector.

Can you talk about how our focus on the Future Skills Centre has been augmented or changed, and the success of the EDGE UP program specifically?

I directed that towards Mr. Bates, but if someone else wants to answer that, go ahead.

[Chris Bates]

EDGE UP is not a program that I'm familiar with, nor do I think it's under ESDC's portfolio.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here much, which kind of relates to what we're trying to do, is engaging with employers: recognizing the important role that employers will play in this and how we support employers to make that successful transition and make sure they have the skills and talent they need to prepare for—and succeed and have a competitive advantage in—the just transition.

I'm not too sure if any of my NRCan colleagues know about this specific program that was referenced.

[Roisin Reid]

EDGE UP is an initiative of the Future Skills Centre. It was a pilot that I believe they're now going to expand to other jurisdictions. Initially it was looking at helping oil workers who had been laid off in Alberta to find new jobs in the technology and IT sector.

[George Chahal, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Thank you for that. Are you able to expand on that, Ms. Reid?

You were saying it was a pilot and because of the success it's being expanded. Can you talk about some of the positive outcomes from that program and where it's being extended?

[Roisin Reid]

I would have to defer the questions for more information to my colleagues. The Future Skills Centre would be a great witness for the committee to call.

[George Chahal, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

All right. We'd love to have the Future Skills Centre here to have a conversation on some of the great work that's happening through them.

With Germany specifically, the analysts' report identified some shortcomings with Germany's just transition and how they worked with various stakeholders. What have we done to make sure that with our just transition, we are better prepared to communicate with all stakeholders, and many of those who haven't traditionally had a voice at the table through this transition?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We're out of time here, but if somebody would like to give a brief answer on that, it would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[Debbie Scharf]

I think it would be Roisin Reid who would need to comment on that.

[Roisin Reid]

We have developed a fairly extensive stakeholder list. I think we're going to have a total of 15 sessions with stakeholders, which would include employers, industry, utilities, NGOs, academics, youth, coal communities that are already in transition and have been benefiting from the Canada coal transition initiative, as well as unions and workers.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

That takes us to the end of the rounds we have for questions.

It's 5:22. There isn't going to be enough time to....

Charlie, is it a point of order?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Yes, it is, before our witnesses leave us.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Make your comment.

I was going to thank the witnesses and provide some summary statements, and then I have a couple of items to get to.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Sorry, I'll be quick.

In my first round of questions, I asked about whether or not the department would be doing an analysis of the IPCC recommendations, compared to what the government plans are, and if they would be able to table any analysis with our committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

That's noted. I will be working with the clerk to pull out a number of the items that were asked for from the officials who were with us today, and we'll be sending that off for input. Thank you.

I wanted to thank all of the officials for providing updates, providing responses, and being here with us today in the first session on this new study. It gives us a sense of some of the work that you're doing now. I appreciated hearing about some of the consultations. I'll be working with my team to push out there the consultation with the April 30 deadline. I'm sure others, like Mr. Melillo, will make sure their constituents are also given a chance to provide some input.

There's nothing further for the witnesses, but I have something for the members, so the witnesses can jump off now. Thank you for being here. We may hear from you again before we've finished this study, which will include up to nine more sessions. You can leave now. We'll be wrapping up in just a minute.

For the members, I have a quick update that on Wednesday, April 6, we'll have ministers Wilkinson and Guilbeault and officials from the Canada Energy Regulator appearing on our study of a greenhouse gas emissions cap for the oil and gas sector. The notice for that meeting has been posted. We are setting aside 15 minutes at the end of that day. The ministers will be here, as I said, for an hour. There may or may not be a vote on Wednesday after question period, so we'll get started as soon as we can. The ministers have indicated that they'll have about an hour to be with us, so we'll get through them and the officials. With the last 15 minutes, we'll have drafting instructions for the analysts so they can start writing the report.

As an update, when we return from the two weeks at home, the plan is to have our first Monday meeting to continue this study with witnesses. We'll be getting your lists by this Friday. For the second hour, we'd like to go back to, hopefully, finishing off the emissions reduction fund report. We'll spend the second hour on that report, so have your comments ready to go on that.

On a technical matter, I learned that we needed a motion to provide catering for the Finnish delegation that we've already fed and watered, but in order to tie things up with a nice bow....

What's that?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

It was his idea. He can pay.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

If somebody would be so kind as to give me a motion to provide refreshments for the Finnish delegation, we can dispense with that.

James will move it.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you for that. I'm sure the Finnish delegation also appreciates it.

We'll go to Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Chair, thank you. What you've laid out all makes sense to me.

I thought we were getting an hour with Minister Guilbeault and an hour with Minister Wilkinson, not an hour together. I find that somewhat problematic.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

There was a request from the ministers to have them together. I know they have a hard stop. We aren't able to get them until 5:30. We'll make sure we have the full hour with them from whatever time we get started on Wednesday. If we can push it a little bit beyond, I'll try to do that. I think it is important that we hear from both ministers, so they will be here.

Mr. Maguire, go ahead.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Ironically, we might have read each other's mind. I felt that it was the same thing. I thought we were getting each of them for an hour, Mr. Chair.

If one of them can come and we have to have the other one on another day, then I think we should still do that. The agreement we had was for one hour with each minister or both of them for the two hours. If one wants to be here for an hour and then the other one for the other hour, I'd be fine with that too.

A lot of information has come down from the government in the last few days or week. I think it would be pertinent for all of us to have the opportunity to get a little more detail on the type of questioning that is out there.

This is the first I'm hearing that we aren't going to have them for two hours.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I appreciate the comments.

We've reached out. We've asked for availability. This is what we have. As I said, I will try to get every minute of the hour.

I guess the other thing is that we have a fairly ambitious work plan between now and the end of June. We would like to move into drafting instructions on Wednesday so that the analysts, as we're away for two weeks, will be able to start on their work on the report. Everything we defer is going to push us further down the line.

As I said, we reached out to the ministers. We requested. This is what they came back with as far as availability is concerned. We'll try to run it as quickly and as efficiently as we can to make sure we have as much time as possible for questions and answers.

Mr. Maguire, go ahead.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I find that unacceptable. We have lots of time between now and the end of June for the ministers to appear about this study. We're going to have them for estimates and other things as well, I know, but there's lots of time. If they can't make it....

Perhaps we asked them if they could be here on Wednesday; I don't know whether that was the specific ask. I think we should ask them when they are available and when they can appear before the committee. I think it's very important that the two of them get here for an hour each at least, or two hours together—I know that's probably more difficult.

I think, in regard to a study that's 10 or 12 weeks long, there should be time in there for the two ministers to appear at some point. I request that we continue to search that out with the two ministers and try to have them appear before the committee, without making it a motion, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'll work with the clerk to go back and see what we can get. They are both going to be here on Wednesday, and we'll.... Anyway, I'll put the question and see what we get back. I know that they have limited availability as well.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

So do we.