Natural Resources Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2022

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Now, the other issue in terms of order, Mr. Chair, is that you ruled that a member can challenge the chair on anything. You subsequently ruled that I couldn't challenge the chair with respect to a ruling.

I don't understand why you think it's okay for a Liberal member to challenge the chair and then you rush through a vote without a roll call vote and without reading the question, and yet you think it is not okay for a Conservative member to challenge the chair. I know you were elected as a Liberal, but you come into the committee with an expectation of impartiality, an expectation that should be upheld.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

On a point of order, Chair, these are personal attacks against the chair. He's called you a hack. He's saying that you're being partisan. This is ignorant behaviour.

You called the question. We should be moving on, and you need to shut him down.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, my encouragement to you would be to rule that a challenge to the chair is of equivalent value and impact whether that challenge to the chair comes from a member of the government or from a member of the opposition.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

To the question, Mr. Genuis, are you challenging the chair?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I wanted to initially, prior to the vote. I do again. I think—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay, so if you're going to challenge the chair, please challenge the chair, and then we'll—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I will challenge both of your rulings separately.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I will challenge your ruling that the vote was taken, and I will challenge your ruling that a challenge can be taken on the speaking list.

I would request a roll call vote, to be very clear, on both of those challenges. I hope members will uphold the rules, but at least we'll have a chance to properly adjudicate this and find out on my first challenge and on my second challenge. Once we've at least adjudicated that, it will provide us with some basis for knowing what the next steps are.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I will accept your two challenges.

We're going to go through the first one, which is, as I understand it, a challenge to the vote I had called on the new speaking order.

Is that what you're—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

The first challenge to the chair was about whether or not a member can challenge the speaking order. You ruled that they can. I don't think they can.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We've already set that precedent in this committee. It's already—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

But I can still challenge the chair, Mr. Chair.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Chair, you ruled on this.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

You can challenge the chair. I ruled on it, but you can challenge. That's what we're voting on.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's the first challenge, yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay.

Can you give us how you would like it worded?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You ruled that Mr. Sorbara can challenge the chair. You identified what the fair speaking order was. Mr. Sorbara challenged that. I do not believe he can challenge that, so I'm challenging your ruling that Mr. Sorbara can challenge the speaking order. That's the first challenge.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay, what we're going to vote on is that the chair can rule on the speaking order. Is that correct?

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I thought it was that the chair can change the speaking order at the request of one of the Liberal members.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I guess another issue is that when—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Let's get this one figured out first.

You're saying that the challenge is that the chair cannot rule on speaking order.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes, Mr. Chair, formally, and this is another issue, because you didn't read the question properly previously. Formally, when there's a challenge to the chair, the question that has to be put to the committee is, “Shall the chair be sustained?” That was not the format in which you put the previous question. In the previous question, the answers were flipped around. Maybe the clerk can clarify that, but I think the question you should be putting to the committee is, “Shall the chair be sustained?” Then the committee will vote on whether the chair's ruling shall be sustained. That's the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'm just looking to the clerk if to see if the appropriate wording is that the chair shall be sustained.

We have to be clear on what we're talking about. The decision is on the updated speaking order. That's what we're—

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

No, Chair. The question is, “Shall the ruling of the chair be sustained?” That's the question we need to vote on.