Evidence of meeting #13 for Natural Resources in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was products.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Skiffington  Chief Executive Officer, Kap Paper Inc.
St-Gelais  President, Boisaco Inc.
Cormier  Special advisor to the President, Groupe Rémabec
Lampron  First Vice-President, Organizational Development and Public Affairs, Groupe Rémabec

The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid

Colleagues, good afternoon. I call this meeting to order.

I'd like to acknowledge that we are meeting on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe nation.

Welcome to meeting number 13 of the Standing Committee on Natural Resources. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders, and I would like to make a few comments before we start, for our witness in the room.

You can use the earpiece and select the desired channel. I'm sure the clerk has taken you through that.

This is a reminder to all of us in the room that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Before we start, I would like to ask members if they agree to have a sixth complete meeting on the forestry industry. The first meeting, as you recall, was only half a meeting, as we received officials from the department and then did committee business.

Colleagues, we're a little thin today, so we're trying to accommodate all witnesses. You'll hear a motion about the minister coming, shortly, but this is just to round out our study, and I know it's of great interest to all members.

I see no objection to that, so we will proceed.

I'd like to welcome back our members who were on travel status to the Saguenay and to Sudbury. I have proof positive that you were on the road. These are nickel pellets from Vale Base Metals, and unfortunately I have to give them back. I hear it was a good trip and was very rewarding. Perhaps we can find time on a future agenda just to hear from all of you, and you can share your experiences.

Thank you to the clerk, to the analyst and to all the staff who went along. I know that they had a rewarding time as well. At least, that's what they told me.

Colleagues, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on Thursday, September 18, the committee resumes its study of the forestry industry.

I'd like to welcome our witness on the first panel. We have Terry Skiffington, chief executive officer for Kap Paper Inc.

Mr. Skiffington, you will have five minutes or less for your opening remarks. We might cut you a little slack today because you are the only witness. You'll be getting our full attention, I assure you.

Please proceed.

Terry Skiffington Chief Executive Officer, Kap Paper Inc.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the standing committee, for the opportunity to appear before you today. My name is Terry Skiffington. I'm the CEO of Kap Paper, a pulp and paper mill located in Kapuskasing, in northeastern Ontario. Our mill has operated for 103 years and remains the cornerstone employer and economic engine of our region.

For generations, Kap Paper has played a central role in supporting Ontario's integrated forestry model. The strength of that model comes from long-term sustainable harvesting, regeneration and silviculture, ensuring that our northern boreal forest remains a perpetual and renewable resource.

For this model to function properly, every component of the forest must be used in a way that generates the highest possible value. Today, the greatest value of the boreal forest comes from solid wood products, and in our region, northeastern Ontario, the high pine and spruce content allows us to produce what is widely recognized as some of the strongest, clearest and most consistent dimensional lumber in the world.

When logs are harvested and converted from round to square, roughly 65% of the volume that's harvested becomes what we call residuals: bark, sawdust, shavings and chips. These residuals must have a home for the system to remain viable. Typically they flow to facilities that produce energy or pulp and paper products, and that's where Kap Paper comes in. We use bark, sawdust and shavings to produce energy. We use chips to manufacture paper products, anchoring the integrated sustainable model for the three regional sawmills in our area, located in Hearst, in Kapuskasing and in Cochrane, Ontario.

Collectively, these operations support 600 direct jobs, more than 1,900 indirect jobs and numerous first nation forestry contractors. Together they contribute $330 million per year in regional economic activity, along with $69 million per year in direct revenue to the Province of Ontario through energy purchases, rail and payroll deductions.

Unfortunately, the situation we face today is stark. In 2002, Ontario had 21 facilities like Kap Paper spread across the north. Today, only three remain, two in the northwest—in Thunder Bay and Dryden—and just us in the northeast. These closures were driven by declining financial viability in global pulp and paper markets. As these facilities disappeared, harvesting levels collapsed by over 50%. Large volumes of merchantable timber are now left in the bush, where they ultimately burn, and sawmills struggle to manage residual chip and biomass volumes.

That struggle has an endpoint, and we are rapidly approaching it. Kap Paper itself is now on the verge of closure. Newsprint markets have been declining for years, but our competitive cost structure allowed us to stay marginally profitable. The recent trade war, however, has collapsed those markets entirely. At present, we are no longer economically viable.

At this point, I'd like to acknowledge and sincerely thank those who have helped us to continue to operate as we seek out alternatives. Premier Ford and the Province of Ontario have supported us with operating loans since mid-2024. More recently, the federal government, with the support of Ministers Hajdu, Joly and Hodgson, provided loans to keep us operating, along with funding to accelerate our search for new products and new markets.

We are also applying to the strategic response fund for large-scale capital assistance as we prepare for a major transformation of our facility. The challenge for us, and for the broader sector, is time. COVID, followed by the trade war, compressed what would normally have been two decades of market evolution into just five years. No company could adapt that quickly.

We are fortunate, however. Ontario has one of the best forest resources in the world and one of the largest inventories of unused, sustainably available timber, and that's nearly three times our current harvest level. That forest is in the bush, and we're not harvesting, and it's ultimately rotting and turning to forest fire fuel. There is a future for Kap Paper in higher-value, tariff-resilient and diversified markets, and with rapidly developing technology there's even growing potential to use surplus fibre to displace oil. Technologies emerge that can produce from a cubic metre of wood what has traditionally come from a barrel of oil.

Maintaining an active and managed forestry sector positions Ontario and other regions of Canada to thrive as the world transitions to a zero-carbon economy, but this cannot just be a transition for Kap Paper. There must be a broader pivot across the sector. Without it, we face a cascading collapse, hundreds of thousands of jobs lost, and lasting economic harm.

At Kap Paper, we have been working on and are closing in on a plan to transition away from traditional pulp and paper products towards engineered wood products aligned with the federal government's housing strategy— products that Canada and the world urgently need and that are not targeted by U.S. tariffs. We believe this plan will attract strategic capital investment from partners experienced in producing these products, enabling us to repurpose existing infrastructure, expand first nations participation in the sector and sustain and grow our economic activity.

The benefits to the taxpayer will be substantial, both in absolute terms and relative to the alternative. This is an opportunity to preserve and strengthen a way of life that the people of northern Ontario deeply value, but to realize this potential, we need time and support from both levels of government to complete this transformation.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid

Thank you, Mr. Skiffington.

We're going to go to questions and comments from our colleagues. Before we do that, if members agree, I would like to propose making the first two rounds of questions six minutes per party, and then we'll have the usual allotted time for subsequent rounds for the first panel, as we only have one witness.

You're going to get a lot of attention, Mr. Skiffington.

I see no objection to that.

Mr. Viersen, we're going to start with you.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For the sake of our committee here, what does the tariff duty regime look like in your area? I'm from Alberta. We're facing about a 45% tariff duty as stuff crosses the border. What is it in your area, and is that affecting you directly on pulp, or is it just the softwood in your area?

3:40 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Kap Paper Inc.

Terry Skiffington

On our side of the business, which is pulp and paper, we were initially exposed to tariffs. When the notion first came about in August or September 2024, we were exposed, and that wreaked havoc in our markets. Subsequently, we do not pay tariffs on the pulp and paper products, because they're covered under the CUSMA.

That's my sector, but in the sector that I am absolutely reliant on, meaning the softwood lumber sector, it's the same. It's about 45% in Ontario, about 35% of which is the duty. The additional 10% is the tariff. Our supply chain, which is the three sawmills that supply us with chips, is struggling financially, so while I just described my business to you as being in great peril, so is theirs, and this house of cards could collapse on either side of that equation based on the tariffs.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Okay. You're still selling your product. It's not a sales problem. It's an input problem for pulp. Is that correct?

3:40 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Kap Paper Inc.

Terry Skiffington

Our particular problem is a revenue problem from the sales of our products. The reason that is the case is that even though the tariffs didn't actually come into effect on our sector, the notion wreaked havoc in the market.

In a way, there are two markets: the North American market and the global export market. In the North American market, meaning almost entirely the U.S., those buyers retreated to North American suppliers, with the expectation that they would then be shielded from the tariffs. Then our global export markets literally collapsed because of the expectation that there would be all kinds of Canadian product needing to go offshore instead of going to the U.S., which is exactly what happened. Our markets were hit by about a 20% drop in revenue without a tariff even actually coming into effect.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Okay.

Fibre access is a major concern in my area. What it sounded like from your presentation is that you're able to get fibre, and there's lots available. Is that the case?

3:40 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Kap Paper Inc.

Terry Skiffington

We have plentiful, high-quality fibre available.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Okay, so it's not a layering effect. You're not being restricted in your access to that fibre.

3:45 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Kap Paper Inc.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

We're just wondering about some of the effects of this pursuit of 30 by '30 that the government is taking. Is that affecting your allowable cut at all in your area?

3:45 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Kap Paper Inc.

Terry Skiffington

Not at all. As I mentioned in my comments, in Ontario we peaked at about 24 million cubic metres of harvest per year. We're down now to around 10 million or 11 million cubic metres of harvest.

There's plenty of volume available, and it's all in very good places. It's just that with the retreat of the industry and the closure of the 18 mills that I referenced in my comments, the volumes have dropped dramatically.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

There are lots of trees, but you don't need them.

3:45 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Kap Paper Inc.

Terry Skiffington

It's a bit of a tangent to your question, but the tree quality is dropping because we're not harvesting at the peak maturity levels. As we saw in northwestern Ontario this summer, much of that volume burned. We were very fortunate in the northeast, in a weird way, because it was so wet, but we're going to get hammered next summer.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Would a softwood lumber deal bring the stability you need going forward?

3:45 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Kap Paper Inc.

Terry Skiffington

That's an excellent question. That is the question.

A softwood lumber deal would solve half of the equation. It would give the sawmillers the opportunity to increase their harvest and production of lumber, but on the other side, what do you do with the chips and the biomass without people like us being viable? It doesn't work. They become constrained. Both need to be solved at the same time.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

We've gone about 10 years without a softwood lumber agreement. How have you survived to this point? You said since COVID, it's changed a lot.

3:45 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Kap Paper Inc.

Terry Skiffington

I'm not directly in that sector. I'm not an expert, but my colleagues....

The recent changes took the tariff levels from—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

The last four weeks or so....

3:45 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Kap Paper Inc.

Terry Skiffington

The last four weeks had the additional 10%. Prior to that, it went from.... I shouldn't say the number, because I don't know it, but it went up to 35% from a much lower number, and then there's the 10% that's come on top of that. That's the recent change.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Thank you very much.

The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid

Thank you both.

We'll move on to Mr. Hogan for six minutes.

Corey Hogan Liberal Calgary Confederation, AB

Thank you, Mr. Skiffington, for being here. Thank you for your important work with Kap. It's an incredibly important piece of the local economy, and it's an incredibly important piece of the forest ecosystem. That's the point I want to pick up on, and I think it follows pretty naturally from Mr. Viersen's comments.

You talked in your opening remarks about the interconnectivity of the forestry sector. Truly, the more softwood lumber we produce, the more we need to think about residuals. It's quite an integrated ecosystem.

I'm wondering if you can expand for the committee on that integration and exactly what that looks like in terms of forestry clusters. When a sawmill gets a log, what happens? How is it all used?

3:45 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Kap Paper Inc.

Terry Skiffington

I'll try to stay within the softwood lumber side of that. There's quite a spectrum, but I'm most familiar....

When we go into a stand of conifers and harvest that stand—and let's say it's pure conifer—about 25% of that stand is not of sufficient quality for dimensional lumber, so 25% of the harvest needs to find a home, as I mentioned, in terms of alternative processing, in pulp, paper, energy and other products.

Then, when we process that tree into lumber, about 45% of that lumber-quality tree is actually converted to lumber. The remainder—bark, sawdust and shavings—is between the round tree and a finished two-by-four. That 55% also then has to find a home to be processed into something of value. When we take that tree, we're dividing it into different areas that then need to generate economic viability for processing, so then that whole tree gets converted to value.

As we just mentioned, the softwood lumber duties and tariffs have wreaked havoc on the ability to actually make money on the two-by-four and then through, let's say, evolving global pulp and paper markets.

The reality in Ontario is that our assets are aged. We've not been able to continue to make money on the pulp and paper side of that equation. Then, there have been events like the global financial crisis and COVID that accelerated that evolution.

We are, today, in a situation. The sawmilling business in Ontario, in terms of assets, productivity and cost, is very good, but the softwood dispute is wiping out all of that. I can just speak for Kap Paper, but generally, in Ontario, our traditional way of processing those other portions has run its course, and we need to pivot out of those traditional products and into new products.