Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 17th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

We do get this kind of thing from both sides, but it's in order.

[John-Paul Danko, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Please proceed.

I'm sorry; I didn't even hear if there was a point of order, but anyway, the question is—

[Pierre Cormier]

I think I understand what you asked.

I'm a forester, then. This is it. This is it. As a Canadian nation, we are sitting on 368 million hectares of forest. That's a jewel.

What we have in our hands is a gem.

That's what we need to understand. When you work to take care of these forests, you will put carbon in your house and your building, and then, with technology, with your bigger building and with the new code, we can build 18 storeys, I think, and that's what we need to do. That's the first step. Take our best wood for those products. Then you have less wood to go to the south, and you build in your own country what you need to build with that renewable product. That's really important to understand.

Behind this, you need to use the by-products of this first transformation, which is really important. If you bring the wrong wood direct from the forest to, I would say, a biofuel plant directly—you take the wood there and you bring it directly to the biofuel plant—because of the cost of the fibre at the plant, there's no business there; the cost is too high. That's why you need a fully integrated suite of forest products.

The first value is building with the best wood. The second is bioproducts, which can be pulp. Pulp is a smart way to use bioproducts, with chips, good-quality chips. Then, after bioproducts, there are biofuel, biochar and biocarbon to help our iron industry and our aluminum industry as substitute fuel. We can already use the bioproducts we are making in the North Shore in Quebec. Be in the middle of each region. Help to heat when you need help. Substitution is smart when you put this in a full integrator.

That's the way we have to think about forestry. That's the way we can capture carbon and help to reach the goal we need to reach. Look at what's going on in provinces like New Brunswick. Half is private and half is public. Look at the care they are taking of the forest. What about the forest fires there? They have forest fires, like everywhere, but small ones.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

[Pierre Cormier]

Do you understand? This is the way. That's why we need a vision.

Excuse me. That's my passion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

We appreciate your passion. It's very nice to see.

Mr. Tochor, I understand you might have a motion that you want to put on the floor.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Yes, Chair. Actually, the notice of motion was ready, on this, on Friday, November 14.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Pardon me, Mr. Chair. I have a point of order.

Should the Conservatives not have to wait for their turn in order to introduce such a motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

No. That's fine.

Mr. Tochor, you have the floor.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

I'd like to move the following motion:

That the committee invite the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources to appear before the committee to testify in relation to the supplementary estimates (B) 2025-26, for two hours, and hold this meeting by no later than December 4, 2025.

I so move.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you, Mr. Tochor. I'll have a response to that in a moment.

(Motion agreed to)

Colleagues, as I indicated the last time, I did speak with the minister's office. He will be coming before us on the 24th—that's next Monday. As you know, the first hour will be with the minister, and the second hour will be with officials.

Thank you for the motion. It has passed, and I think we're all looking forward to seeing the minister on the supplementaries (B) and on his mandate, as well as on the budget.

Proceed, Monsieur Simard, for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let's come back to your passion, Mr. Cormier.

I completely understand your point when you say we need to value and create added value to fibre as a whole. I think we all agree on that.

Quebec's forestry sector has two models that are quite effective. There's your bioeconomic model, and there's the Chantiers Chibougamau model, which produces glued-laminated timber.

When we talk to people at Chantiers Chibougamau, we always get the same response, which is that it happens over a 15 to 20-year period. At present, the problem is that we need to develop new markets and, simultaneously, new products. This isn't possible.

I liked your response earlier. You said that, within 24 months, we could deploy new technologies comparable to what you have.

That said, the committee and government need to be aware that we are in the middle of a crisis and we need to deal with that before thinking about developing new products and new markets.

I would like to know what you and Mr. St‑Gelais think about that.

What can we do? What's the best way, for government, to deal with this crisis?

Next, we could do two things, which is to develop new markets and develop new products.

What needs to be done first?

[Julien Lampron]

In my humble opinion, we need to strike on both fronts simultaneously. We need to be able to have an immediate response to the crisis and the perfect storm we are traversing. At the same time, we need to unlock new markets.

Groupe Rémabec was a pioneer in wood biofuel. We proved that it works. To date, we have sold 50 million litres of pyrolytic oil.

What we need to do is replicate local successes at the national level. It works. We can reduce carbon emissions for all federal buildings using heating oil, such as heavy fuel oil.

Let's use wood from now on. It is possible. It works. Others have done so. Industries have done so. It's a viable economic argument. Not a single industry will want to reduce emissions with another technology if it undermines their competitiveness.

The product is based on a viable economic model. Why could the federal government not lead by example by fostering the expansion of the forestry industry and by allowing other players such as us to participate?

We paved the way. Others can follow it. We look forward to collaborating with other players in the industry to create a much more resilient forestry industry with these by-products, among other things.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

We go to our final two speakers. I'm going to start with Mr. Viersen for five minutes, and then, to wrap up, go to Mr. Hogan for five.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To Mr. St-Gelais, I was just wondering whether you could talk a bit about the “death by a thousand cuts” that your industry is facing, and talk a bit about provincial versus federal jurisdiction and the impact of caribou range plans on your industry.

[Steeve St-Gelais]

We shouldn't be too pessimistic either. In our industry, printing paper is a declining product, but all other products, such as waferboard and cardboard, are still growing.

The current context is obviously very difficult, and we must ensure that businesses have access to liquidity in the short term. We must also try to unfreeze the US market in every way possible.

That said, I would like to return to a fundamental point that was mentioned. In the medium and long term, we need integrated complexes. At Boisaco, in Sacré-Cœur, we have an integrated complex where the primary processing plant is located next to a waferboard plant, a litter plant and a pellet plant. That is the direction we need to take in the medium and long term.

Currently, fibre is still being used. Paper mills that manufacture printing paper are therefore still in operation. It is not in our interest to cause them to close in the short term.

We need to lay the groundwork in the medium and long term to ensure there are opportunities for fibre. This market will eventually open up if printing paper continues to decline.

That is why it is important to have integrated complexes. This allows for the development of sufficiently significant synergies, including primary processing, to come out on top.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Monsieur Lampron, do you have any responses to my questions?

[Julien Lampron]

We also believe that the future lies in integrated complexes. With wood, a number of different directions can be taken.

For our part, we think it's an extraordinary energy. A tree is carbon, and that carbon can be used to reduce emissions for the economy as a whole.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Perhaps I can redirect a little. I'm interested in knowing about federal caribou range plans and provincial management of a resource. Forestry is a provincial resource managed by a province, yet the federal government sticks its fingers in that management through caribou range plans. I'm wondering if you have comments about that.

[Julien Lampron]

The current challenge is due to the fact that the price of fibre varies from province to province. We are competing with each other using unequal pricing.

Furthermore, we need to find a way to respect provincial jurisdiction on land use. There needs to be healthy competition at the national level, so that the price of a tree is the same everywhere.

It is not easy to do. We are very respectful of the work being done to achieve balance in terms of this land use.

I hope this is a more direct response to your question.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

No. My question was about caribou range plans—an animal.

[Pierre Cormier]

Can I...?

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Yes, please. Something's lost in translation here, I'm afraid.

[Steeve St-Gelais]

I would like to respond.

Caribou are one of many important factors related to supply. For businesses to be able to plan ahead, it is important for them to have access to a predictable supply. They need to feel confident in this regard. That is why perceptions need to be restored throughout Quebec and Canada.

In Quebec, 71% of public forests are not subject to any forest management. Not many people know this. Only 29% of Quebec's public forests are subject to harvest management and forest management. It is therefore important for the Canadian public to be aware of these facts, because they change public perception. Unfortunately, some perceptions do not correspond to reality.

Furthermore, we must remember that the forestry sector democratized access to forests. It is therefore normal for people using forest roads to see that trees have been harvested. Without these roads, there would be no harvesting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you, Mr. St-Gelais.

Wrapping up, we have Mr. Hogan for five minutes.