Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 17th, 2025

[Terry Skiffington]

It's financially not possible to compete against carbon fuel sources or fossil fuel, let's say, with biomass without some form of incentive. If we look at other jurisdictions—Scandinavia is probably the best example in the world—they recognize the broad economic impact of a sector. In order to make that sector sustainable and financially viable in the long term, it needs support through mechanisms like power purchase agreements, which Saint-Félicien had, as you referenced.

If we look at the pure fuel cost, biomass can't compete. If we look at the fact that it's a key element of stabilizing a region by growing economic development.... As I mentioned, we have some $300 million of economic activity just in our little region, which can then be grown with the addition of biomass-based power generation. It's not only that. Particularly in Ontario, we need electricity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you, Mr. Skiffington, for your testimony today. It was very thoughtful testimony indeed. You got a good workout from being the only witness, but we have learned a lot from you.

As one of our members suggested, we welcome a brief from you. Feel free to share more with the committee if you didn't get a chance to highlight some of the points you wanted to make.

Colleagues, we're going to suspend for a few minutes while we welcome the next panel. We'll be back shortly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Colleagues, perhaps we could take our seats and resume.

Let me start with a few comments for the benefit of our witnesses.

Those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. Also, at the bottom of your screen, you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French. Those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel. Do keep in mind, folks, that we have very talented and excellent interpreters, so perhaps you could speak reasonably clearly and slowly. That always helps.

I will remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

I would like to welcome our witnesses on the second panel.

We have, on Zoom, Steeve St-Gelais, president, Boisaco Inc. In the room, we have, from Groupe Rémabec, Julien Lampron, first vice-president, organizational development and public affairs; and Pierre Cormier, special adviser to the president.

You will each have five minutes or less for your opening remarks.

Monsieur St-Gelais, you have the floor. Welcome.

[Steeve St-Gelais, President, Boisaco Inc.]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Honourable members of the committee, good afternoon.

We are grateful to the committee for taking the time to conduct this important study on our sector.

Boisaco group is a community-owned organization, belonging to some 300 co-operative workers and more than 800 citizen-investors in our community. Boisaco group's mission is to drive sustainable development through the responsible development of the woody resource, while ensuring that our community and sector thrive. In keeping with this mission, eight primary, secondary and tertiary processing companies have joined forces with Boisaco group. We operate mainly on the Haute-Côte-Nord and in the Saguenay region, in Quebec.

Our industry is in a dispute with the U.S., and it's been going on for far too long. Today, the situation has escalated. As a civic-minded organization with deep roots in the community, we are asking the federal government to show foresight. It is critically important that it recognize the significance of and need for the forestry sector. To that end, the government needs a true picture of forest management as practised in Canada.

Thousands of men and women have been managing and developing forest resources for multiple generations. They care about our forests. All too often, opponents of the forestry sector spread oversimplified messages, make erroneous claims and perpetuate myths. These things shape what Canadians think, and unfortunately, perception prevails over reality, casting a shadow on the hard-working, diligent and professional people who work in forests. Every single forestry worker is a professional in their respective field. They do not deserve to be treated with contempt. They deserve respect, recognition and consideration, like any worker in any sector.

Wood is the most environmentally friendly material there is, and Quebec's and Canada's forestry practices are among the best in the world. These practices are certified under internationally recognized criteria of sustainable forest management, ensuring that the needs of current generations can be met without jeopardizing the ability to meet the needs of future generations.

All Canadians depend on products that are the result of wood processing. From building materials to furniture parts, from toilet paper to sanitary napkins, from food-grade containers to cardboard packaging, from wood pellets to pallet components, wood is everywhere; we rely on it in every part of our lives. Every individual consumes an average of 1.5 to two cubic metres of wood products a year. Every product we consume is thanks to the hard work of thousands of men and women, often labouring in tough conditions in the heart of our regions and forests. It's ironic: as a society, we are all very glad that many of our needs can be met thanks to wood processors and the products they provide, but we condemn the work and effort that go into making those products. Enough is enough. It's time to give the forestry sector the respect it deserves, but above all, it's time to give all those who harvest and process lumber the dignity they deserve. It is thanks to them that all Canadians have access to these products.

The federal government has a pivotal role to play on that front. It must help raise collective awareness of the importance of the forestry sector across the country. It must create a favourable, future-focused environment for the sector, by encouraging the use of wood, supporting home building and providing access to liquidity during this very challenging time. At the same time, the government needs to encourage innovation in all its forms, across the primary, secondary and tertiary processing chain. Most of all, the federal government must work tirelessly and strenuously on the sector's behalf, especially when it comes to the long-running softwood lumber dispute with the U.S.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you, Mr. St‑Gelais.

We're now going to go on to Mr. Cormier.

You have the floor for five minutes or less.

[Pierre Cormier, Special advisor to the President, Groupe Rémabec]

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, thank you for having me this afternoon.

My name is Pierre Cormier. I am a forest engineer and a special adviser to the president of Groupe Rémabec.

With me today is Julien Lampron, first vice-president, organizational development and public affairs for Groupe Rémabec.

Groupe Rémabec is one of the largest private forest producers in Quebec and one of the top 10 forestry companies in Canada.

We manage our forests and remove three million cubic metres of wood a year from them. We operate mainly in three regions of Quebec: Mauricie, Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean and Côte-Nord. More than 2,000 families depend directly on our operations, a responsibility we take very seriously.

Our group is entirely integrated, working with affiliated companies that cover the entire value chain, from harvesting trees, producing lumber and selling a variety of products to cutting logging roads and managing lumber yards.

We are partners with Arbec Forest Products, and we operate seven lumber mills, representing 1% of total lumber production in North America.

Groupe Rémabec is also firmly focused on the future. We know that sound forest management is a pillar of the Canadian economy. Our group is responding to climate challenges through decarbonization and contributing to the vitality of hundreds of municipalities in our regions.

Given the declining use of wood by-products in pulp and paper, the group has chosen to invest in the new economy and produce renewable energy. Pyrolytic oil, biocoal and biochar are all new forest biomass products that are promising for the Canadian economy and that will decarbonize Quebec, Canada and the world. Groupe Rémabec has developed an integrated biofuel production complex at its Port-Cartier site on the Côte‑Nord.

Since 2022, the Bioénergie AE Côte-Nord plant has been producing biofuel from forest biomass. It is the largest fast pyrolysis plant in the world, with an annual capacity of 40 million litres. To date, it has sold nearly 50 million litres to replace heavy fuel oil and prevent 76,000 tonnes of CO₂ from going into the atmosphere, the equivalent of emissions from 16,000 cars. The potential of this technology is immense, and biofuel from the forest can be used now to replace heating oil in industries and our institutional buildings and, soon, the gasoline sold at gas stations.

The Port-Cartier integrated complex also houses Carbonity, a biochar plant capable of producing 10,000 tonnes of biochar per year. It was built with our partners Airex Energy and Suez. The plant aims to replace coal and sequester carbon in the soil. This is one of the most promising solutions, and using it in agriculture can decarbonize and enrich our soils to deal with extreme weather events, which are now part of our new reality.

Despite these advances, the current political context for the forest industry is unsustainable. Resilience is a hallmark of our industry, and we have been suffering the after-effects of the softwood lumber crisis for many years. However, we all know that the current situation can't last much longer.

As you know, Canadian sawmills have paid over $10 billion—$11 billion was mentioned earlier—in countervailing duties, all in the context of a prolonged softwood lumber dispute. For Quebec, we're talking about more than $2 billion Canadian. The current combined rates and the additional 10% tax burden make us really vulnerable in the softwood lumber market as it exists today. The impact on our businesses is devastating. Lines of credit are being squeezed. Our ability to maintain jobs is also at risk.

It's all about cash flow—I think it was Mr. Martel or Mr. Simard who talked about that earlier. That's why we recently took a position on the various options to be able to help the softwood lumber industry and to ensure that we can have enough cash flow to operate.

To sum up, I will tell you that our company is really focused on the future. We believe in forestry, and we believe in promoting fibre to strengthen our forestry sectors in every region in Quebec and Canada.

We feel that wood must clearly be used for construction, but for value-added construction. We have the best wood to build and respond to the housing crisis, which the government is doing with federal solutions to solve the housing crisis in our communities. We also make bioproducts such as pulp, biofuel, biochar and biocoal. Producing pyrolytic oil will give us an opportunity to diversify our green energy portfolio and help decarbonize our entire country, which would strengthen our forestry sectors by developing fibre.

What we need are opportunities. We already produce bioproducts, so the government needs to support our system, whether through regulating bioproducts or adding incentives, to bring our biofuels to gas stations and institutions. We should develop opportunities in our institutions.

We are currently in discussions with universities about heating, but we could also use our bioproducts to transform federal institutions. All of that would make our forestry sectors stronger and oriented towards the future. Our jobs, which are so important to the development of our regions, would stay here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

Thank you, witnesses, for your testimony today. We're going to start on our rounds of questions.

We're going to start with Mr. Martel for six minutes.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here this afternoon.

Mr. St‑Gelais, the tariffs have been increased to 45%, but they could go up to 55%. How is it that you are still in operation?

[Steeve St-Gelais]

We're not a very big exporter. We're not one of the biggest exporters of softwood lumber. If you look at all products generated by similar companies, the percentages vary. Our lumber production for export varied between 5% and 10%. Obviously, the tariffs are having a negative impact on us. They were 14% or 15% in August, then they rose to 35% and are now at 45%.

Our export volume means that we can leave the U.S. market if it maintains its tariffs and go back to our traditional market, which is the Canadian market. That's what we've done so far. Even if we don't close the door on selling to the United States, it doesn't make sense to export there given the current tariffs. As a result, we haven't been selling our products to the United States for a few months now. Since we were not a major exporter, we managed to find our place in the Canadian market. However, we have to be aware that, unfortunately, the biggest exporters are returning part of their production to the Canadian market. At the end of the day, we're all affected in one way or another.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Do you think the government lacks the will to negotiate the agreement with the Americans? It's not just Mr. Trump. Tariffs have been in place since 2015, when Mr. Obama was in power. There were no negotiations and nothing in the agreement was changed.

In your opinion, is there a lack of will to do that?

Why don't we want to change anything?

[Steeve St-Gelais]

That is one of the things we have to realize. The steel, aluminum and energy sectors are the ones that have been prioritized.

Now, the fact is that the softwood lumber industry has been in this situation since 2017. This is the sixth softwood lumber crisis in the past 40 years. The current crisis dates back to 2017.

I'm sure you will understand why it is all the more important for us to prioritize softwood lumber. We understand the significant challenges facing aluminum, steel and energy, but there have been negative repercussions on the softwood lumber sector since 2017. It is all the more important to solve the problem once and for all.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. St‑Gelais, do you think the support measures the government has put in place are sufficient?

Are they helping the industry in your region?

[Steeve St-Gelais]

At this point, we haven't really had a chance to take advantage of them. However, we were able to implement a program to promote innovation. We'll see how it goes.

Loan guarantees are debts. However, trying to solve a problem by going further into debt is not ideal. In addition, the deposit buyback measure is appealing to us, because the amounts to be repaid are known for the first three years.

Since additional debt would not be created, deposit buyback should be one of the things to consider before thinking about additional funds. We think that deposit buyback is the best way to go.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

You have two minutes left, Mr. Martel.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. St‑Gelais or Mr. Cormier, this afternoon we will be voting on a budget.

If you've read it, could you tell us if it meets your needs?

[Steeve St-Gelais]

Mr. Martel, unfortunately I haven't had a chance to look at the recent news about the budget.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Lampron, have you read the budget?

[Julien Lampron, First Vice-President, Organizational Development and Public Affairs, Groupe Rémabec]

The measures are promising.

That said, we want funding to be available as quickly as possible. The announcements have been made, and now we need them to take effect so that we can have access to liquid assets as quickly as possible. That's what we're trying to figure out right now.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Now let's talk about regulations. I've heard that the building code could be amended to include a procurement policy, which would help the industry.

Mr. Lampron, what do you think about the regulations and the new policy?

[Julien Lampron]

We are definitely very pleased that Canadian wood content is being promoted in new construction. In fact, we see this as the way to get us out of the crisis.

In the short and medium term, we want to be able to be part of an industrial sector that provides predictability. Canadian wood content in construction is essential to get through the crisis.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Policies need to be put in place.

Is that correct?

[Julien Lampron]

That's exactly right.