Official Languages Committee on April 2nd, 2019

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I think that Mr. Clarke and I are on the same wavelength. I had a number of questions focusing on the same issues as his questions, but I will continue to pursue that aspect.

Thank you for joining us, Commissioner.

As I said at the outset, Commissioner, it is as if you had a VIP card of sorts, like the one issued on the show Tout le monde en parle. You pay us visits often.

My first question was about the number of investigations and their increase, and not only during last year. I assume there has been a steady increase over previous years. Am I wrong?

[Raymond Théberge]

The number of complaints has varied since 2012-2013. One year, we received nearly 1,000 complaints, but that number dropped to 800 the following year. This year, however, the number of complaints increased by 21% over the previous year.

Have we reached a new high and is this our new norm? Previously, our norm was 500 or 600 complaints per year. That required us to operate in a certain way.

So I am wondering whether the number of complaints will increase in a similar fashion next year or will stabilize. If our new norm is 1,000 complaints per year, we will have to operate differently and wonder whether we have sufficient resources to do our job.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I understand that 50% of those complaints focus on part IV provisions.

Were there any surprises in the complaints you received last year or over the past two years that may have been about, for example, new issues?

[Raymond Théberge]

I can't say that was the case.

However, every time a new institution is created—or at least in very many cases—we note that it is not really conscious of its official languages obligations.

As I was saying earlier, the workplace is changing a lot. One of the areas I am thinking about is the travelling public, which is the source of many of the complaints we receive. The environment in which that segment of the population is evolving has changed tremendously over the past 20 years and, in my opinion, the act does not provide us with all the tools we need to deal with the new reality.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

You talked about the modernization of the Official Languages Act, and a number of us are working on that file. What will you focus on over the next year? Will is be research activities, activities on the ground? What will your priority be? What efforts will you invest and what resources will you need to get there?

[Raymond Théberge]

In 2018, the office launched a very broad consultation program on the modernization of the act. We started with in-person meetings with more than 300 association representatives, stakeholders, experts and researchers. Afterwards, we carried out an online survey focusing on aspects of modernization to be prioritized, which was completed by 4,200 Canadians.

In May, I will submit my report on modernization, which will provide not only the results of our consultations, but will also outline the efforts of other stakeholders in this file, including the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages, your committee and the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, or FCFA.

Next year, after the election, we will have to restart the process and bring the modernization of the act to the forefront. The modernization process is well underway. We would like a new bill to be introduced by 2020 if possible, but that decision is not up to the office.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Okay.

You often talk about what the money enables you to do, but is there currently anything you cannot do owing to a lack of funds? If so, what is it?

[Raymond Théberge]

As I said already, additional funding would help us increase our research, communication and promotion activities.

Obviously, the office will never have the same funds for its promotional activities as a government or even a department. So it is up to departments or federal institutions, which have the resources to do so, to take responsibility for any national campaigns.

We must use evidence to inform our work. We need tools and resources to carry out our research, audits and follow-ups.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I would like to hear your opinion on the issue of evidence, especially as it relates to language variables, which it seems impossible to obtain, even through a census. We seem to be lacking data that would enable us to establish connections in our research. So those language variables are very important.

[Raymond Théberge]

There have been some talks and discussions with Statistics Canada over the past few years to enable us to better identify those language variables. That is extremely important. First, it is a matter of being able to identify francophones and, second, to determine points of service, the geographic location, and so on. Those language variables must take into account the evolution of communities over the years, exogamy and immigration. For instance, there are many immigrants whose first language is not French, but who speak it. For those people, French is not their first official language spoken—the famous FOLS. It is important to be able to understand all those variations relating to language.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much.

We will now move to Mr. Choquette.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Good morning, everyone.

I will not be talking to you about Netflix. Actually, as everyone now knows, I have asked for legal proceedings against the Netflix decision. Of course, this is not personal, nor is it directed against the Office of the Commissioner. The goal really is to move the official languages issue forward, specifically French. We are talking about $25 million from $500 million, probably with nothing to show for it in terms of creating French-language content. Moreover, there is no provision at all for official languages in minority situations, which is a total scandal. Everything that can be done must be done. I started this and I am going to keep going.

Having said that, I am going to raise some other matters. You talked about complaints and you said that there are more than previously, which makes life difficult, and that some of them take a lot of time. For those making the complaints, it is sometimes frustrating. The situation can be incomprehensible and shocking. Let me give you two examples. The first is about the complaint about the RCMP on the Hill. You are very familiar with it. It was submitted by my former colleague Yvon Godin—gone, but by no means forgotten. He sent you a letter which, since it is public, I can read. It said this:

First, I am stunned to learn that the RCMP has completely ignored your recommendations since your final report in 2017. But I gather that you brought the problems to the RCMP's attention in 2015 …

The two recommendations are extremely simple: draft and implement a procedure to issue reminders about official languages and establish a mechanism to confirm that the services are provided.

How do you feel when you see such things happening in a federal institution?

[Raymond Théberge]

There are two types of responses when we follow up on commissioner's recommendations. First, in 80% of cases, federal institutions implement the recommendations. However, in 20% of cases, taking action is difficult. First, in recent years, we have observed a kind of levelling off in official languages in federal institutions. Then, it is too often the case that the measures put in place by federal organizations do not last long and do not solve the problem. Unfortunately, in some cases, such as the one you mentioned, I believe. the Commissioner only has certain powers…

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Commissioner, I do not want to be impolite, but I am going to interrupt you there. Please forgive me.

Yvon Godin added:

The Office of the Commissioner must go and get the essential information from the RCMP, resist though it may.

How do you respond to that? Why don't you ask the RCMP to provide you with information about its bilingual capacity on the Hill? Why don't you do that?

[Raymond Théberge]

We made that request.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

You made that request?

[Raymond Théberge]

Yes.

[Ghislaine Saikaley, Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Assurance Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages]

Yes, absolutely. We are waiting for the RCMP's reply to that preliminary report. I would also add that the matter was complicated by the fact that the Parliamentary Protection Service was created at the same time, or very shortly after the complaint was filed. So we were in discussions, not only with the RCMP, but also with the Parliamentary Protection Service. Because that new organization was being created, the RCMP was modifying its role. Between 2015 and the time the report was produced, we had a number of discussions with both organizations. At the moment, we are expecting a reply on the two recommendations from the RCMP. Then we will complete our investigation.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Okay.

It goes back to 2015, let me emphasize.

[Ghislaine Saikaley]

Absolutely.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

So the government is acting in bad faith in the matter.

I want to talk to you about something else that is also a great concern, in my opinion. The Alliance nationale de l'industrie musicale, ANIM, is another public matter—which is why I am talking to you about it. The alliance also issued a media release saying that its request is public.

You produced a first preliminary report in March 2018, which criticized the fact that Part VII of the act is not being upheld in terms of the contribution by SiriusXM Canada. In its release, ANIM says this:

Very recently, in February 2019, ANIM was devastated to receive from the commissioner an amended report on the investigation into its 2013 complaint. Mr. Théberge is doing an about-face on his decision from a year earlier and finds that the complaint is without foundation.

This is another complaint that goes back a very long time.

Does it happen often that a complaint first has a foundation and then, because things happen, it no longer does? Is this the only case? Do you often decide first that a complaint is founded, conduct an investigation and make recommendations, and then do an about-face thereafter?

[Raymond Théberge]

It does not happen often. In this case, and in a few others that happened in the last year, it's largely because of Justice Gascon's decision in the case involving the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

The Gascon decision.

[Raymond Théberge]

That decision means that we have to reevaluate some reports about Part VII and change the rules of interpretation. The report you mentioned is a preliminary one.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

It goes back to 2013, Commissioner.

You are telling us that, if this goes on, you will need additional financial help to deal with complaints. A complaint like that is very serious. You say it yourself in the report. Official language minority communities, OLMCs, were not consulted on the matter. Since 2013, SiriusXM Canada has not been contributing to the Canada Music Fund. The damage has been going on since 2013, and I find that to be a concern.

Why are you not asking for more money right away, so that you can respond to complaints more quickly, and act as a result?

You have just asked the RCMP for figures in 2019, but the complaint goes back to 2015.