Official Languages Committee on Feb. 16th, 2017

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

In the last census, that question was not asked so clearly, was it?

[Marcus Tabachnick]

No, it was not.

The other point is about our future battles, not the ones we are fighting now, because we are always focused on the future. So, are there new Canadians who—

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Actually, Mr. Tabachnick, let me point out that we are already dealing with the future. We are talking about 2021, and this is 2017.

[Marcus Tabachnick]

Yes, I know, but we have to fight a number of battles. One of them is about newcomers. Did they go to school in English, depending on the part of the world they came from, whether it was Australia, the United States, India or anywhere else? That question is just as important because the Government of Quebec recognizes only rights-holders or those who have asked for a certificate of eligibility. We cannot fight against that idea without the data that allows us to do so.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Okay, thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Choquette, you have the floor for three minutes.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to come back to the post-census evaluation. Was the QCGN consulted when the post-census was done? Are you consulted on the evolution of the census? What is your collaboration with Statistics Canada?

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

In 2002 and around that period, when the Government of Canada was looking at the first action plan and there was a notion that there would be a post-censal survey, enquête postcensitaire, the English-speaking community was consulted.

I have to say that at that time, the English-speaking community had less capacity than it has now to work on, as a community, the specific questions or understanding of the questions that should be asked that would help us in the English-speaking community. There was less capacity in the English-speaking community for many structural reasons.

To be fair, Statistics Canada, at the time Jean-Pierre Corbeil, was working on the file and did consult with the English-speaking community. We were there, but I'm not sure that we were able as a community, as we are now, to give the best information. Monsieur Corbeil was very helpful in telling us and helping us and advising us, but the art of the possible in the English-speaking community is understood much better now. I'm not sure that we would have gone to you in 2006 with the same capacity in front of you. So that's number one for 2006.

I think that as a community we are now perhaps more forceful in understanding what we need to ensure our community for the future. Our work with StatsCan is ongoing. We have a very good relationship with StatsCan, and I think that StatsCan, with its expertise and now our expertise, would be able to answer what Monsieur Généreux just said. What questions do you need? We're not statisticians and we don't have the right words to ask the questions, but I think over the past 10 or 15 years we have come to a better understanding as a community of what we need and how we can use it to the advantage of our community and the minority communities, writ large, to do the work, so thank you for that. I have confidence that we have a better ability now than we did at the beginning of 2000 and 2006.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

Mr. Choquette, we will come back to you.

Mrs. Boucher, you have six minutes.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

Like my colleagues, here I am again, trying to better understand the issue.

When Mr. Corbeil came to meet with us last Tuesday, we asked him about the census. In his own words, he said that it was perhaps not the best vehicle for obtaining that data. According to him, the census already has an enormous amount of questions.

In your opinion, what would be the best way to collect data that would provide the government with a simple, clear, way of helping francophone minority communities outside Quebec and anglophone minority communities in Quebec? The goal is to have a clearer idea, a better picture, of the situation for people in minority settings. What is your best idea on the matter?

[Geoffrey Chambers]

Perhaps we are less precise on that point. Actually, we are aware of the fact that drafting questions for possible use in the census is technical. The question that we are presently trying to answer is quite complicated. The technical drafting must be based on a legal appreciation of the definition of the term “rights holder”. The legal basis is perhaps not exactly the same in all national contexts. The question may well be difficult and very complicated to draft; it may contain different elements or require different data. What we are asking may well be technical and difficult, we acknowledge that. That said, it is not really our job to determine all the details and to know how to deal with those questions. The data provided could still be useful. That's why it is our sincere wish for it to be dealt with by professionals.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I asked friends the question; it turns out that very few of them knew what a rights-holder was. I imagine it's the same in your communities. Even people in a minority situation do not necessarily know what the term means. It's quite vague, even for us. We have to ask for a definition.

[Geoffrey Chambers]

You are quite correct.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

So perhaps the important thing is to better define the term “rights-holders”. That could perhaps make the rest easier.

[Marcus Tabachnick]

I would like to finish what Mr. Chambers said.

Perhaps we do not have the best vehicle, but it is the only one we have. So the challenge for us is to ask good questions, so that we can get answers and data that are as precise as possible.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

To add to what Mr. Corbeil and my colleagues have said, I will say that we need a credible third party in order to ask the question. If it not through a census, a survey may well not be the most appropriate way. The answers obtained and the subsequent analysis of them must start from a credible basis. Statistics Canada is credible.

If it is not done through a census, there has to be another way of helping us.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Did the 2006 study make it possible to get the clearest picture of the situation at the time?

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

Everyone used it. It could have been better, of course, but everyone used it, and we still use the data today. It is old, now, though.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Yes, it is. We should think about getting other data.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

We should think about getting another action plan.

It should be freshened up somehow.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Yes, we have to bring it up to date.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

Yes. Certainly, if this question is not treated in the census, in a census question....

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Yes.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

If there is another way to treat it, fine, but it has to be a credible source, because that's what we all need.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

That is good, thank you.