Official Languages Committee on Feb. 28th, 2018

[Marie-France Lapierre]

I should specify, at the risk of repeating myself, that one of the proposals we made regarding changes to the act consisted in increasing transparency as to the destination of these funds. I don't know if people from the federation submitted proposals to the Senate committee. Be that as it may, they would be included in their brief.

One of the problems we deal with is that we don't really know where the money that is supposed to be for us goes. The province wants us to say that its contribution is equal to that of the federal government. In fact, that is required by the law, by the agreement. For the four-year pilot project, the province told us to answer that it had also given us $800,000. So that is what we wrote down, but those people did not give us any funding. This is not even included in the Ministry of Education master plan. This really has to be brought to light; these people have to show some transparency and insofar as possible be accountable to the federal level.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I think everyone here has dealings with Canadian Heritage.

What is your relationship with that department, specifically?

Please be very open; I am not looking to blame anyone.

Do you think that Canadian Heritage programs as a whole facilitate things?

Could improvements be made?

It is important to say so now.

Mrs. Asselin, you have the floor.

[Marie-Andrée Asselin]

We have a good relationship with Canadian Heritage. The help the department provides to the minority francophone community is of course very important. However, insofar as early childhood is concerned, nothing is permanent. The whole topic of early childhood was almost completely eliminated from the last roadmap. This was a big impediment to the federation and to the network of early childhood centres in the province.

About 10 centres opened their doors between 2002 and 2013, but no others have been created since, because we don't have the necessary funding to increase the number of centres. We need permanent provisions in order to be able to really focus on early childhood and make it a strategic axis of the plan, a battle horse. All of that has to be written down in black and white in the act, much like the provisions on health. Early childhood is too important; it can't just be eliminated like that.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Ms. Ky, I really appreciated what you had to say. I married an anglophone myself, and we live in an almost entirely francophone environment. I sometimes joke that my wife is the only anglophone in my riding. We raised our children in both languages, and they are perfectly bilingual today. They have passed on this value to their own children. Although we live in antipodean geographical areas, it is possible to learn the other language in minority milieus. You were saying earlier that your children do not consider themselves bilingual, but anglophone.

Do they have children today, or are they still teenagers?

[Jocelyne Ky]

No. They don't have children yet; they are 25 and 26. To answer your question: yes.

What happens, and what I see—and many share my experience—is that not only are we bilingual, we are trilingual. We are among a large number of families that speak three languages at home. English is our common language; it allows us to communicate amongst ourselves. My husband speaks another language.

What also happens is that the families are often very isolated. We may be the only francophone parent in the community, and we have no family nearby. And the children look at us in a somewhat perplexed manner. We speak to them in French and it's a bit discouraging, because there's no community support. In any case, at the time there was absolutely none.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Has that changed since?

[Jocelyne Ky]

It is starting to change. Over the past years, a lot of work was done in co-operation with the Fédération des parents francophones de Colombie-Britannique. We now have, for instance, the Franc départ program. We see a change. But we have to continue to support and develop it. These are the very first steps. I would say that over the past 20 years, it has been during the past five that we have begun to see a change.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Ms. Ky.

I now yield the floor to Mr. Choquette.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

We began by talking about the shortage of qualified teachers. If I am not mistaken, a shortage of educators is a problem in British Columbia. What solutions are there? Do we need immigration? Do we have exchange programs with France? In the past, I have been asked to make it easier for teachers to come from France to work in our schools. What are the solutions in the short and medium terms? There are short-term solutions, of course, but we also have to look at the longer term.

[Isabelle Thibault]

What you are mentioning is important because, as you know, education is regulated by the provinces. So it can be very difficult to recruit qualified people, either from France or from other provinces. Qualifications are not automatically recognized; you have to have your records analyzed. Sometimes, teachers' qualifications are not recognized 100% and they have to go back to school. It is very discouraging for them.

The solution would be to offer a provincially recognized program in French and this is what the Educacentre College offers. We chose to offer it by distance education only so that the training would be available for the entire province. But not all of our clients are pleased with that. As I said just now, few CSF students come to us because we do not provide a campus life that might interest them.

If we were masters of our own program, we could be more in tune with our community's needs and provide some flexibility in our range of programs. We could then attract a bigger clientele and better meet their needs. However, that would have to be done with the support of the province because education is in provincial jurisdiction.

[Yvon Laberge]

I would like to add something.

In our presentation, we mentioned that, because we do not currently control the program, we have to require the same registration fees as those charged by the English-speaking programs.

About how much does it cost, Ms. Thibault?

[Isabelle Thibault]

It costs $8,000 rather than $4,000. It's double.

[Yvon Laberge]

If we were masters of our own program, we could charge $4,000 rather than $8,000. That would be an incentive for low-income people. Training is an investment. If you have to invest $16,000 to become qualified as an early childhood educator, and you can only hope to earn $17 or $20 per hour afterwards, it is easy to do the math.

I want to raise another point to back up what Mr. Généreux said just now about bilateral agreements in education.

I have been the president for eight years. In those eight years, our budget envelope has not increased. If you consider the increase in the cost of living, we are in the hole. The demands increase but we have less money to operate with. At some stage, there will be a tipping point. Before that happens, we have to increase the budgets for the bilateral agreements too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Do you have a quick question, Mr. Choquette?

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

You suggested amending the Official Languages Act so that the commitment is greater. How would your suggestion be received by the provinces? It has been said that the provinces want education to continue as their private domain. Have you consulted them? How will they see your proposal to amend the Official Languages Act for education and early childhood?

[Marc-André Ouellette]

I hope they will react; that would be something in itself. Up to now, we have been rather ignored. Perhaps, if we prod them a little, they will eventually wake up and see that we exist. Up to now, the signs have not been very positive.

[Marie-France Lapierre]

We are fighting the same battles, province by province. We have all made our case in court at one time or another.

Since I have the floor, let me use the opportunity to tell you that I am also from an exogamous family. I began working with the CSF when my boy was two years old and I was trying to find a French-speaking daycare. I was working outside and my husband stayed at home. So the children were learning more English than French, by osmosis. I went to the neighbourhood school, which was located 45 minutes from my house. When I got there, I cried when I saw the state of the school. I knocked on the door and asked what I had to do to start a daycare in that school. They told me that there was no space. When my children were in grade 5 and grade 6, space became available because they had made some changes in technology. I went back with another parent and we set up a daycare. It did me no good because my children were in grade 5 and grade 6 at the time, so they did not need daycare.

We set up a preschool program. The problem we had is that we were not able to keep teachers because of the salaries. Finally, we offered a preschool program three days per week.

It is always a battle, and it is never-ending. There is uncertainty, because we never know whether the money will be available or not. That is why we are asking for the act to be changed. We want the provinces to have some responsibility. Education is in provincial jurisdiction, but preserving our official languages is federal. We all have the obligation, at federal level, to ensure that we are not all assimilated.

Still, the situation is different today. I am really happy that your children can speak both languages, but it must be said that there are many more possibilities to access English content. Anglophones are much less exposed to the danger of being assimilated than francophones. When my children were very little, they presented as anglophones. At some stage, they saw themselves as bilingual. Now that they are teenagers—they will be 15 and 17 next week—they say that they are Franco-British Colombians. It’s not a lot, but it’s a big success for me.

[Voices]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Ms. Lapierre.

Thank you very much, Mr. Choquette.

Before we finish, Ms. Lapierre, I would like to ask you two other questions. First, what are the basic principles that federal officials use as their basis, in your opinion, when they are negotiating bilateral agreements with the provinces? Second, given the prerogative of the provinces and the linguistic rights of minority communities, does it seem to you that the balance of power is properly reflected or could we improve the negotiation process? In other words, are our federal officials doing a good job when they are negotiating the bilateral agreements?

[Marie-France Lapierre]

I will let you answer for the feds. As for the province, it is supposed to represent us, the francophone school boards. We had a meeting in June with our representative. We were supposed to have a follow-up in December, but we still have not received the answers to our questions. A meeting was supposed to be set for January 15, and it was cancelled again. We are almost in March—isn’t it February 28 today?

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

February 28.

[Marie-France Lapierre]

And we still haven't had any renewals. We tell each other that elected officials, at the federal level, can have the best will in the world, but we have no idea what the province tells them, because we are not consulted. At any rate, I don't consider that we were consulted, so this is one of the problems. No matter what work is being done at the federal level, if the province doesn't show its commitment, if it doesn't listen to what we have to say, it becomes a moot point. It isn't all that useful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Ouellette, you have the floor.

[Marc-André Ouellette]

As long as the negotiations take place in camera, it is hard to answer your question, clearly. Concerning our relationship with our friends at Heritage Canada, it's going very well these days. They're listening to us, but the question remains whether they're understanding us. If so, we will know the answer when they end up recommending provisions so that we can stop having to fight for the same thing for 20 years. We are growing tired.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

I would like to send my most heartfelt thanks to you, Mr. Ouellette, as well as everyone else, for your presentations.