Official Languages Committee on Feb. 28th, 2018

[Diane Tijman]

I'll answer.

In our system, the money comes from the provincial government. Right now, the amount is about $11,000 per student. What's more, each school board or community imposes a tax on homeowners. The money from this tax is only a supplement and does not constitute the basis for funding the school system.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I understand. The federal government remits funds to the province, which also gives money. The school boards or municipalities provide another third, another part of the money. Is that it?

[Diane Tijman]

Yes.

I should say that, with respect to French, a small supplement is given to schools, to school boards, depending on the number of students in that program, depending on the percentage of French language instruction. For example, if a child is in kindergarten in a 100% French program, the school will receive the maximum. In the case of a Grade 12 student with only one course in French, the amount will be much less. It is up to the school board to manage the funds, distribute them to schools and keep a little for program management, teacher support and all the rest. Generally speaking, the money that comes from community member taxes is separate, but I don't know what the school boards do with it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

We have to move on to another speaker.

François Choquette, it's your turn.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for being here today.

My name is François Choquette. I am the MP for Drummond and NDP critic for official languages.

I have in front of me a table showing the evolution of enrolment in French as a second language and in French immersion. I see that there was a decrease in French-as-a-second-language enrolment from 2001 to 2015, while there was an increase in French immersion across Canada.

What explains a decrease in French-as-a-second-language learning and an increase in French immersion? Is it a failure when it comes to teaching French as a second language and good news for French immersion? How can you explain this to me? Would someone like to answer my question?

[Diane Tijman]

Okay.

I just want to say that the action plan was announced in 2003. I remember that Stéphane Dion came to our community to make this announcement. The general idea was to double the number of bilingual children upon leaving school. People really took this plan to heart and, in some communities, the objective was achieved.

Mr. Lewis, would you like to add a few words?

[Glyn Lewis]

Just really quickly, François, this is also something that I mentioned in my presentation. The number you're looking at, with the lines going down, that's the core French number. It's the core French, as I mentioned in my presentation, that we recognize is a struggling program. It's not as strong as it should be, which is unfortunate because of how many students are participating in that program. As I mentioned in my remarks, about 180,000 students in B.C. are in core French. That number is consistently dropping.

I think you raise an interesting question. Is part of that drop because they're going into French immersion? That could be part of the reason, but it's not a big part of it, because of just how big the difference is between those two numbers. The bigger problems, in terms of the drop that you see in that line, have to do with the quality of instruction, the teachers feeling confident to teach the language, the teachers feeling confident to help inspire those kids to stay in the classroom, and then all of the extracurricular things that might complement that.

I would also add that there is more and more competition from other second language programs, so they have more and more choices in terms of core Punjabi, or core Mandarin, or core whatever else.

[Danielle Dalton]

I already speak French, so I'll do this in English.

I know for a fact what some of the situation we have is, and it's very simple. My husband has been a schoolteacher all his life, so I have been able to be fully immersed. Also in my past life, I was a teacher, a facilitator, or whatever it is you want to call me, and I've had opportunities to work at that level. It goes like this: when BCTF gives you a certificate to teach, you're supposed to know and be able to teach everything, including chemistry, math, biology, and language.

Imagine my surprise when, while teaching French, I have Nancy Griffith-Zahner in my class, the woman who is going to be spearheading core French. I wasn't surprised really because that happens all the time. We don't get support from BCTF, and another reason that schools really do not like to go outside is that we don't want to disturb BCTF. This is not a slight on BCTF. I'm just saying that the expectation at that level is that you teach everything.

We have lost specialization in our classrooms, many years ago, and this is one of the reasons students are having problems in math and in languages. There is no secret.

That is my answer.

[Gino LeBlanc]

That is the answer.

It's a quality problem, a problem of confidence in their language skills, as Mr. Lewis was saying. It's a problem related to the quality of the French these teachers have. In Canada, 75% of core French teachers say they are confident in their language ability. In British Columbia, a study that was done at Simon Fraser University, at OFFA, reveals that only 22% of teachers are confident in their language skills.

This is exactly what Mrs. Dalton is saying. We have people in front of students who are not at the level they should have reached. So we have a problem with the quality of the program, even if the desire to learn French is real.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Demand for French immersion is really strong. So I guess the program is good, and the teachers are competent. The problem is the number of spaces. There aren't enough. Have you roughly assessed how many spaces are missing compared to demand? How many spaces are lacking? Would it require a big investment? I believe the federal government has invested nearly $115 million in OLSPs, the official languages support programs.

What more is needed? Have you evaluated the number of people who would like to participate in the program and who, unfortunately, have to rely on a lottery to do so?

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Go ahead, Ms. Dalton.

[Danielle Dalton]

May I respond?

I will be brief. I'm someone who is interested in the facts. Here's how it works: there are 500 students who want to enrol in French immersion, and there is room for 30. That's my answer.

[Gino LeBlanc]

Mr. Choquette, I spoke about the quality of teachers, but there is also a problem in terms of the program. British Columbia doesn't have a standardized program for core French instruction. There are huge variations from one school to the next and from one school board to the next. We recently did a study on the core French program in British Columbia. Unfortunately, since the ministry so ordered, I cannot share the findings with you. However, I can say that there is no established program. In other words, we rely on the good will of the teacher.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Gino. René Arseneault has the floor.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank everyone for being here.

This is very interesting. I am the MP for Madawaska—Restigouche. We are talking about aboriginal languages. Madawaska is a Malecite name, and Restigouche is a Mi'kmaq name.

I am a Liberal MP, since all Atlantic ridings are Liberal. I like to say that the sun always rises in the Atlantic and then enlightens the Centre and the Pacific.

That was said as a joke.

This morning, we talked to people from the education sector. I am really surprised that there is no firm program in British Columbia. You mentioned the core French program. I may be naive, but I find it inconceivable that school boards may choose different curricula within the same province. That's not happening in my province, and I thought it was the same everywhere.

Earlier, Mr. LeBlanc, a fellow Acadian from New Brunswick, spoke about needs. All this is a synergy, a spinning wheel. It takes a community for people to thrive in French. Education is essential for this to be possible. We also need people to maintain it and promote it. In short, we are talking about a community symbiosis in the case of education.

We have with us Mr. Hubert from the Alliance Française de Vancouver. We also have representatives from the Association des francophones et francophiles du Nord-Ouest.

You saw the budget and heard about the $400 million. What do you think are the main areas to feed?

Mr. Hubert, let's hear it.

[Damien Hubert]

We have already said; it is teacher training. We need to train a lot more teachers. As we have already made these very good arguments, I will not repeat them. We are talking here about the quality of teachers, which will increase students' confidence in learning; there are also more opportunities to teach, and therefore an increased number of classes. That's one of the priorities, in my opinion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Hubert, I would like to know if the Alliance Française is funded by the French government.

[Damien Hubert]

No, not at all. As I said, the cultural programs are financed by our affordable French classes. We work with other francophone community associations. We are entirely self-funded.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Those were good comments.

On a community level, what could be done to promote the importance and the vitality of the French language? Are there tools other than education that could be used in conjunction?

[Damien Hubert]

I mentioned the immersion programs in my presentation and Mr. Lewis did so too. Those programs bring the language to life. When children learn a language, they can see that it is possible to use it in other situations, at the movies, for example. There are lots of opportunities and cultural events that allow them to immerse themselves, and they are important.

When you learn a language in isolation, by yourself, and, when you get home, you speak English—or another language—learning becomes a long road. Conversely, you will be more motivated and your learning will be better if, as well as being taught, you can practice the language and can see that French is used in professional situations in British Columbia and elsewhere.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I was talking about tools used in conjunction with education; extracurricular activities are a good example. The vitality can continue after the classes. For francophone minorities, including the one in British Columbia, we might think about sports, for example, or any activity held outside of, but associated with, the schools. My question can go to either Mrs. Dalton or to Mr. Hubert.

In your regions, is it always the same people, the same volunteers and the same physical education teachers who look after the activities in French, like weekend sports, or theatre or cinema?

[Danielle Dalton]

Yes, Mr. Arseneault, they are always the same three volunteers.

[Voices]

Ha, ha!

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

That’s like in other places; it’s like that where I come from. Yes, that sounds like home.

Yes, Gino?

[Gino LeBlanc]

The post-secondary situation is the same. Tomorrow, we are having French Fête at Simon Fraser University, as part of the Printemps de la francophonie program. As you know, the Rendez-vous de la francophonie is held in March.

Even though I am in a post-secondary educational institution, I need those activities to motivate our young people. That is why I invest at least a third of my budget in order to create life in French on campus.