Official Languages Committee on May 9th, 2022

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Does Transport Canada have the authority to assess penalties if it deems that businesses that the department regulates, such as CN, have contravened the Official Languages Act?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Transport Canada does not have the authority to enforce the Official Languages Act. However, we work closely with the official languages commissioner on whatever assistance and support they need. We regularly remind CN and Air Canada of their obligation towards upholding the Official Languages Act, but the power is vested with the official languages commissioner.

This bill that's coming to you soon, Mr. Iacono, has now new authority for the commissioner to impose fines.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Would you agree that Transport Canada should have that authority?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Again, I'm looking forward to the study of the committee when Bill C-13 arrives here. The idea here is to ensure that the official languages commissioner, who has the expertise, the knowledge and the authorities, is able to investigate and uphold the Official Languages Act responsibility.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

For the record, I'd like you to tell me whether you think official languages should feature in Canadian National's promotional and inclusion efforts.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

As I stated, legal obligation is one thing. Setting an example, and creating an environment of leadership and inclusivity, is another. I think CN needs to be aware of the responsibility they have towards their employees and customers.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Iacono.

The second vice-chair of the Standing Committee on Official Languages will ask the next questions.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Good afternoon, Mr. Alghabra. I congratulate you on your French, which has greatly improved. We can see you've had a good teacher, perhaps an even better one than Mr. Rousseau's. It's definitely hard to speak off the cuff, but you get used to it if you try.

I didn't mean to prejudge your ability at the time, but you spoke no French at all when Mr. Trudeau appointed you. Don't you think that sends a message? Earlier we mentioned the Governor General and the Lieutenant-Governor of New Brunswick. That happens quite frequently. Don't you think it sends a a strange message? It's pretty much what's happening at CN.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you for your questions and kind words, Mr. Beaulieu.

First of all, not every Canadian is able to speak both languages. What we need to do is support and help every Canadian to see the importance of French. There are many Canadians who, like me, either didn't grow up here and never had the opportunity to learn French growing up, or, for one reason or another, didn't learn French.

I feel that my responsibility, as someone who is like them, is to remind everyone of the importance of French in Canada, of the importance of Quebec to Canada, and of the fact that Quebec is a unique nation within Canada and we need to work with everyone.

Yes, ideally everyone in Canada should speak French, but given that we have a significant segment of our society who do not, I feel I have a responsibility to set an example that I'm putting in an effort to learn French. Even for those who don't learn French, they should respect French and understand why it's important that those who speak French receive services in their workplace or from their provider or supplier in French.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you for saying that Quebec is a unique nation. Do you agree that Quebec is a nation whose only official and common language is French?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I've learned over the years, in my political involvement, never to speak on behalf of Quebec. I let Quebeckers speak on behalf of Quebeckers. I am here to defend their rights and—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Pardon me for interrupting, but the Quebec government has proposed to entrench in its constitution the fact that Quebec is a nation whose sole official and common language is French, and we introduced a motion to that effect not long ago. I didn't notice whether you'd voted for it, but many members did.

Do you agree with that?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I can tell you that in 2006, my first time being a member of the House of Commons, at that time in the opposition, when the idea of Quebec as a nation came to the House of Commons—and at that time it was seen by some as a controversial notion—I was proud to stand in support of that motion.

As I said, I totally understand...maybe not fully, but I try my best to understand the unique identity of Quebec as a nation and its protection of its culture and of its language, and I will do whatever I can to promote Quebec's culture and language.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's great.

Ultimately, this isn't just about Quebec; it's about the self-determination of peoples, whether it's Palestine, Catalonia, Scotland or other nations. There's a movement in that direction.

Many problems in the federal government have been reported. According to one study, 40% of francophones aren't comfortable speaking French in the departments. The Quebec regional vice-president of the Public Service Alliance of Canada said he thought English still dominated, even in Quebec.

Does your department operate mainly in French in Quebec?

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Go ahead, Mr. Drouin.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Although I enjoy the questions my colleague Mr. Beaulieu is asking, I would note that the minister is here to answer questions about Canadian National, not the public service in general. Consequently, I'm trying to understand the connection between the questions he's asking the minister and the motion the committee unanimously adopted.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

If the department doesn't set an example, it will fail to influence CN; I don't see how it can encourage it to operate in French.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Beaulieu, I was listening to you before Mr. Drouin spoke, and the same question came to my mind.

We decided with all-party unanimity to hear the Minister of Transport on the motion introduced by the New Democrats respecting CN.

I understand your reasoning to a degree, but I would ask you to focus your questions more on the subject.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I can comply with your request, but I think my questions are entirely relevant because I also think an example has to be set.

I'll focus more on CN.

As you explained, Air Canada and CN are former Crown corporations that have obligations under the Official Languages Act. How then can you explain why complaint after complaint is filed against those Crown corporations? It's constant.

Even the president of CN in the 1960s said no francophones were qualified enough to be vice-presidents or to sit on the board. Today, 50 years later, the organization still has no francophones on its board.

We can clearly see that the Official Languages Act isn't effective. What do you think you can do?

Under Bill 101, for example, the Quebec government can withdraw all loan guarantees and subsidies it grants to a business that refuses to obtain a francization certificate or to cooperate.

Would you consider the idea that your department might do the same?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'm sorry, Mr. Beaulieu, but you're well over your six minutes, even though I stopped the clock during the point of order.

The next questions will come from Ms. Niki Ashton.

Ms. Ashton, there are six minutes for you.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the minister for being here.

First, I'd like to say that the people of Quebec and the entire country are concerned about the decline of French. Francophones are facing a genuine systemic crisis. You've been in power for seven years, and the failures are piling up. The Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship is unilingual. That's a failure for francophone immigration. The CEO of Air Canada looks down on French, and the Commissioner of Official Languages says your government's responsible for a systemic crisis that francophone workers are paying for. More recently, we've become aware of the situation at CN.

Why has your government abandoned francophones instead of protecting French?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Ashton. Perhaps this will help me build, also, on trying to answer Monsieur Beaulieu's question.

I do agree that we have to do everything we can to protect French, and that the French language is under threat. Therefore, we need to ensure that we address all systemic issues and ensure that there are no obstacles to Canadians to receive services, or as an employee to work in a place of the language of their choice.

We will continue to modernize. There's a proposal right now to modernize the Official Languages Act, including providing the official languages commissioner with new tools that include the imposition of fines when failures occur. I will continue to do my part personally, and do more. We all have to do more.

I stand here humbly asking for more ideas from this committee. What else can we do to ensure that we protect the rights of all Canadians?

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I want to go back to the CN situation because there's also a safety issue here. If railway companies can't hire supervisors who can understand and speak French, dangerous situations may arise, as has happened in eastern Canada. Sometimes people are asked to act as interpreters in the course of shunting trains. That then becomes a transportation safety issue.

We know that increasing numbers of railway accidents have occurred in recent years. Consequently, we have to do more than just talk about Bill C‑13. We have to act now because we know the problems also concern safety.

What are you waiting for in order to take action? Do we have to wait for another accident to happen because team members misunderstood instructions?