Official Languages Committee on Dec. 13th, 2022

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Ms. Boily, I think you have the wrong amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We are studying the new Bloc Québécois amendment.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Ms. Boily does not have the new amendment.

[Sarah Boily]

Just a moment, I received it by e‑mail. It begins as follows:

AND WHEREAS the Government of Canada recognizes that the existence of a majority-French society in—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

It's not the right one. The amendment does not mention Quebec.

To make sure that everyone has the right version of the amendment, I will read it out, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Go ahead, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

The amendment reads as follows:

the importance of remedying the decline in the demographic weight of French linguistic minority communities, including by fostering the reestablishment and growth of their demographic weight;

Do you have that version, Ms. Boily?

[Sarah Boily]

Yes, I have it, but I understood that we were talking about the other amendment.

Could we clarify the question?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Okay.

Since it's Mr. Généreux's question, I'll give him the floor again.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Inevitably, the two paragraphs refer to this. In their definition, they are interrelated, and Mr. Beaulieu can talk about that later.

Ms. Boily, Mr. Housefather claims that these provisions would put anglophones at a disadvantage compared to francophones in terms of the equality of services offered to both communities under the Official Languages Act. Is that true?

[Sarah Boily]

I'll go back to what I said earlier.

If the basic premise of the wording is to ensure the future of French, we are moving away from the objective of the Official Languages Act, which is the equality of status and rights of the two official languages.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

So removing certain parts of clause 2 of the bill would reinforce what Mr. Housefather is saying.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Since people are shaking their heads, the answer is yes.

Does that suit you, Mr. Généreux?

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Yes.

[Le président, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Godin, earlier, I did not understand whether you wanted to have the floor after Mr. Généreux. Otherwise, Ms. Ashton and others are waiting.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I wanted the floor, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Go ahead, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to come back to the comment made by my colleague Mr. Housefather. He makes fine speeches on behalf of the group he represents, and that is perfectly legitimate. As parliamentarians, we have a duty to work towards this goal. I am grateful to him for that.

Fifty-two years ago, a law was written. There is a big difference between the reality of Canadian society 52 years ago and today. If there is one unanimous observation made by the witnesses who appeared before the committee, it is that French is in decline. Bill C‑13 deals with the modernization of the Official Languages Act, but we agree that the only language that is vulnerable today is French.

You must understand that the philosophy behind my colleague Mr. Beaulieu's speech is to have mechanisms to recognize the situation of French in Quebec. We agree that the anglophone minority in Quebec is not as vulnerable as francophone minorities outside Quebec, hence the importance of recognizing the specific situation in Quebec. That is what I had in mind for the first amendment.

It is important to keep this in mind so that the day after Bill C‑13 receives royal assent, we act immediately to stop the decline of the two official languages. We will agree that French is the most vulnerable. I wanted to remind the committee members of this. This does not make Quebec a spoiled child, since the reality is obvious and the data confirm it. This also exists elsewhere in Canada for francophone minorities, but not for the anglophone minority.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I think Mr. Beaulieu raised his hand before me.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I think it's the case, and Mr. Housefather has spoken twice already.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Okay. I'm sorry.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Firstly, I would like to set the record straight. What Mr. Housefather said is wrong. I said that anglophones in Quebec were entitled to services in English almost everywhere. What Mr. Housefather would like is for this right to be extended to a large proportion of newcomers, allophones or immigrants who are close to English. But Quebec cannot do that, because it would lead to a constant minorization of French. What we want is to integrate newcomers.

Secondly, when Mr. Housefather says that the Official Languages Act leads to equality, that is not true at all in Quebec. One of the experts even seemed to say that ensuring the future of French in Quebec was not the same as ensuring equality of status and use. According to the Official Languages Act, equality means equal access to services in French and English where numbers warrant, and even this aspect is not assured. We must remember that the so‑called positive measures in the Official Languages Act are not at all equitable when it comes to Quebec. They do not aim at equality at all, since 100% of these measures aim to strengthen English in Quebec.

If we want to talk about justice, I would say that Quebeckers have been suffering injustices constantly for almost as long as we can remember. Even today, English-language universities receive between 35% and 40% of federal funding, while there are about 9% of anglophones in Quebec. So the Official Languages Act does not ensure equality for French Quebec at all. It is quite the opposite.

It's the same thing in many areas, but if we stay in the area of official languages, 100% of the funding, or about $68 million a year for the last 52 years, has gone exclusively to strengthen the anglophone education system, which was already overfunded. Francophones get nothing. Bill 101 always provided for English-language institutions for anglophones, especially in its first version, but the idea was to prevent this from serving to anglicize newcomers. We can see that English-language CEGEPs in Montreal, Quebec, are overfunded. Their funding is almost double the demographic weight of anglophones. We could cite many similar cases.

On the other hand, to say that all young anglophones are bilingual is also false. There has been progress. Young anglophones in Montreal are currently more bilingual than young francophones, but outside Quebec, this is not at all the case. Francophones outside Quebec are almost all bilingual, while about 9% or 10% of anglophones are.

There really is a double standard, and Mr. Housefather's talk of victimization is harmful. It's a discourse held by groups like the Quebec Community Groups Network, formerly Alliance Quebec, of which Mr. Housefather was president. These groups present everything as a matter of justice and injustice. In my opinion, it's the francophones in Quebec who suffered from injustice for a long time.

We cannot continue like this if we want there to be two official languages in Canada. This whole structure promotes the anglicization of Quebec, and if we continue to let French decline and it becomes too weak in Quebec, there will no longer be two official languages in Canada. This will weaken French everywhere in Canada.

However, Mr. Garneau raised an interesting point that I had not thought of. I would like to modify the amendment to strictly delete lines 16 to 20. We have always been in favour of the right of first nations to keep their languages. Bill 101 recognized that from the beginning and put mechanisms in place to this end. So I'm open to removing that part. Someone else could also propose it.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

At this point, Mr. Beaulieu, you know you can't amend your own amendment.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I know, which is why I'm inviting someone to do so on my behalf.