Official Languages Committee on Feb. 7th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

This meeting is called to order.

Welcome to meeting number 48 of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, May 30, 2022, the committee is resuming its consideration of Bill C‑13, An Act to amend the Official Languages Act, to enact the Use of French in Federally Regulated Private Businesses Act and to make related amendments to other Acts.

Pursuant to our routine motion, I wish to inform the committee that all members completed the required login tests prior to the meeting.

Today, we are resuming the clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C‑13.

First and foremost, I welcome the officials from the Department of Canadian Heritage, Citizenship, Refugees and Immigration Canada, Justice Canada and the Treasury Board Secretariat, who are here to support the committee and answer technical questions.

From Canadian Heritage, we welcome Julie Boyer, Marcel Fallu and Chantal Terrien.

Good afternoon, Mr. Fallu. This is your first appearance before the committee since we began the clause-by-clause consideration.

From Citizenship and Immigration, we welcome Alain Desruisseaux.

From Justice, we welcome Warren J. Newman.

From the Treasury Board Secretariat, we have Carsten Quell.

Thank you to all these fine people. Their assistance will be very useful to us.

Let's pick up our clause-by-clause consideration, starting with our discussion on amendment CPC‑8, as amended.

Before we adjourned the last meeting, we had amended CPC‑8 just to add to the English version the equivalent of the words “ou autre” in the French version.

To put you back in context, I will ask the legislative clerk to read out these amendments before we move on to the main amendment.

You have the floor, Ms. Thivierge.

[Émilie Thivierge, Legislative Clerk]

The subamendment moved to amend only the English version of CPC‑8, on page 22 of the amendment bundle.

For all the paragraphs, it read,

“communication means any form of communication, including oral, written, electronic, virtual or other”.

The same thing applies to the three paragraphs.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Good. As I remember, the subamendment had passed.

We now go back to the main amendment, CPC‑8.

Mr. Godin, would you like to add anything else?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, first I'd like to say hello, because we haven't seen each other since last year.

I would also like to point out that I'm pleased to be back with the committee. This committee must do painstaking work to protect both official languages. I emphasize that they are English and French.

If I may, I'd like to highlight the statement made by your Liberal Party colleague Francis Drouin, who simply expressed the opinion of many francophones living outside Quebec regarding the importance of working to protect both official languages.

With respect to amendment CPC‑8, I'd simply like to say that it's a matter of terminology and that the subamendment was very relevant.

If there are no comments, we could put the question to it.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

As there are no further comments, let's put the question to it, Madam Clerk.

(Amendment as amended agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Let's move on to amendment LIB‑8.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have the floor, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I would simply like to understand something.

Votes are usually called in alphabetical order. However, I see that it was done differently. I would simply like to understand how the order is determined.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We had reached Mr. Gourde—

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Michelle Legault]

Usually—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I'm asking because Mr. Gourde was called first. I am Mr. Godin, and Mr. Généreux comes before me.

Usually, the members are called in alphabetical order, but if that's no longer how it's done, I'd just like to be aware of it.

[The Clerk]

I can answer the question, Mr. Chair.

Actually, I cross out the names of the replacements on my list. That said, I don't mind coming back to you.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I don't want to make a fuss. I understand.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Before we move on to amendment LIB‑8, I'd like to bring something to your attention. It has to do with the words used in the English and French versions.

For consistency, I'd like to remind members that when you passed LIB‑1 as amended, you chose the term “rétablissement” in French, and “restoration” rather than “re‑establishment” in English. To ensure consistency in the bill, I urge the members to propose the necessary changes so that the same terminology is used from one amendment to another when referring to the same context. I recall that in amendment LIB‑1, the word “restoration” was used rather than “re‑establishment”. These two words are synonyms, but we need to be consistent.

I'd also like to tell you that if LIB‑8 passes, LIB‑9 cannot pass, because they are both identical, and NDP‑4 cannot be introduced, because we would have two definitions of the same term.

We will now begin discussion of amendment LIB‑8.

Ms. Kayabaga, you have the floor.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

With respect to amendment LIB‑8, I move that Bill C‑13, in Clause 6, be amended by adding after line 8 on page 5 the following:

“re‑establishment” means, in relation to the demographic weight of French linguistic minority communities, a return to the demographic weight of all members of those communities whose first official language spoken is French to the level it had at the time of the census of population of Canada taken by Statistics Canada in 1971; (“rétablissement”)

As I've mentioned before, we are witnessing a major demographic decline of francophones in Canada, for several reasons. This decline has had a considerable impact on francophone minority communities, whose demographic weight has decreased over time.

In many francophone minority communities, the decline of French is impacting certain services such as child care, health care and other service delivery programs due to the lack of qualified francophone staff in these communities.

By ensuring that the demographic weight is re‑established to the level it had at the time of the 1971 Statistics Canada census of Canada's population, people living in a francophone minority community will have access to the basic services they need, without having to wait long periods of time or travel long distances.

Many stakeholders in business, social services and health care have made this observation. They have talked about how much this decline affects the services offered. To fill this gap, some are looking for workers abroad.

This amendment is related to the one I introduced last time. Both aim to re‑establish francophone communities, which continue to grow across Canada.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to move a subamendment tied into what was said earlier about amendment LIB‑1.

In the English version, we should change “re‑establishment” to “restoration”.

I'm not sure if it takes unanimous consent to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

If I understand correctly, you're asking for unanimous consent from committee members to have us refer to “restoration” in the English version from now on, as we did in amendment LIB‑1. That's fine.

Since everyone seems to agree, let's go back to amendment LIB‑8, as amended.

Are there any further comments about amendment LIB‑8?

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Mr. Chair, I just want to say that we would also like to move a subamendment in the same spirit as what my colleague Ms. Kayabaga proposed. It would make the amendment even clearer.

We propose to add a percentage at the end of the amendment. We move that “6.6% of the population outside Quebec” be added. I feel that is in the same spirit as what's already been introduced to the committee.

I wonder if I can add that at this point.

How do we handle this?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Are you moving a subamendment, Ms. Ashton?

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Yes, I move that the following be added at the end of the amendment, after “1971”: “6.6% of the population outside Quebec”. I believe the text has just been sent to the clerk.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

All right, thank you very much.

While the text is circulating, did you want to say something, Mr. Godin?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, what my colleague Ms. Kayabaga said was highly relevant. What I understand is that the NDP representative is pre-empting her amendment NDP‑4, which becomes a subamendment to LIB‑8 and makes it clearer.

This is consistent with what you said earlier. Shall we proceed by subamendment or do we have unanimous consent to withdraw amendment LIB‑8 and adopt amendment NDP‑4?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

A subamendment has been introduced, and we are discussing it.

Are there any questions about the subamendment? Ms. Ashton is moving that a percentage, 6.6%, be added.

Mr. Serré, you have the floor.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have no issue with the subamendment. I would simply like to point one thing out. We have representatives from Citizenship and Immigration Canada with us today, and perhaps they can shed some light on this. In the white paper it says 6.6%, but I understand that Statistics Canada made an error and the percentage released is actually 6.1%. I don't know if we should keep 6.6% today, because—