Official Languages Committee on Feb. 9th, 2022

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

It sounds like with 60,000 complaints, there need to be some consequences or this will continue.

You mentioned needing a conflict resolution mechanism. Can you tell us more about that?

[Raymond Théberge]

Currently, when someone files a complaint, there are two approaches: a formal investigation process and more of an informal facilitated approach.

There are a number of ways that we could work with an institution. There are other mechanisms. There are alternate dispute mechanisms, and the proposed legislation gives us that opportunity to put in place those mechanisms. How can we work better with institutions to ensure better compliance other than through complaints and recommendations? There must be other ways that we can work with these institutions to have better outcomes.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Yes.

You mentioned for example that we're missing linguistic skills with some of the candidates. When you see gaps, how often do you update the minister so that she can take action?

[Raymond Théberge]

We don't deal with the minister. We do deal with Treasury Board. We do, for example, send Treasury Board all of our reports dealing with section 91 complaints, which have to do with identifying the linguistic requirements of positions, for all of those cases where it was not done correctly, to inform Treasury Board that there's a problem. It's systemic. When we have a systemic issue, we will not resolve it by a complaints process. We will resolve it by a systemic approach to resolve the issue.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

True, but if the Treasury Board is seized with all kinds of other financial issues, then they don't tell the minister, and then the minister doesn't know what the gaps are that need to be addressed.

Anyway, I think I'm out of time, but thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Gladu.

The next questions will be from the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Official Languages.

Mr. Serré, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to Commissioner Théberge and his entire team.

First, like my colleague Mr. Gourde, I would like to highlight the great efficiency of your team. I was appointed Parliamentary Secretary on Friday, December 3, and by December 16, I had already received your letter of congratulations and your request for a meeting. It was all done in nine business days. Again, my congratulations to your team for their great efficiency.

Second, I wanted to tell you that the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship is very concerned about francophone immigration. He will also be appearing before the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Those are the two points I wanted to highlight.

Mr. Théberge, what is your assessment of the measures that have been implemented to date under the Action Plan for Official Languages, 2018-2023?

What are your expectations in terms of renewing it?

[Raymond Théberge]

The work of the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages has three main objective, the second of which is to monitor the implementation of the action plan. After a number of meetings with various stakeholders, we determined that the implementation of the action plan has gone very well. It is important to remember that we are in the middle of a pandemic and that departments have therefore had to adapt in order to be able to do their part.

We will soon be producing a report on the implementation of the action plan, which will include a series of recommendations for the next action plan. In other words, while, in our view, the action plan is relatively good news, it will be helpful, in preparing the next stages, to consider the comments of those closely involved.

In fact, we would like to be part of the consultation process for the next action plan, which is scheduled to begin in March 2023. The action plan—

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Forgive me for interrupting you, Mr. Théberge, but I don't have much time left, since I will be sharing it with my colleague Ms. Lattanzio.

Mr. Théberge, I know that you met with the President of the Treasury Board, Ms. Fortier. Could you send the committee, in writing, the conclusions of your meeting with her on official languages?

I will turn the rest of my time over to Ms. Lattanzio. I believe there are two minutes and ten seconds left.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I will hurry up and ask my questions.

Thank you so much, Mr. Commissioner, for being among us today.

I'm going to cut to the chase and ask you the question with regard to the overseeing of the implementation of the recommendations. I understand that you want a little bit more of a bite in this new law, which is a serious consideration.

You mentioned before that there could be a default to impose monetary repercussions. Sometimes when we're dealing with companies, a fine is not exactly an incentive to not do or to do, right?

Is that the only incentive or pecuniary or punitive measure that you're seeking, or are there other options that we can explore?

[Raymond Théberge]

When we tabled our position paper in 2019, we did mention other options. One was enforceable agreements with institutions. This can work just as well with federally regulated companies.

It would then be possible to issue compliance orders.

I think the question of administrative monetary penalties is on the table. It's interesting, but I think it really would apply more to the corporate side than to federal institutions. Federal institutions are a “take money from Peter to pay Paul” kind of thing.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Exactly.

[Raymond Théberge]

It could be in terms of graduated steps of measures. You can start with binding agreements and you proceed. It depends which one works with which institution or organization. It's not—

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

What do you think about the publication of these sentences, judgments or binding agreements?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That's all for now, Ms. Lattanzio.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Could we hear his answer?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You will have another five-minute round shortly, Ms. Lattanzio, so you will be able to ask your question again.

The floor now goes to Mario Beaulieu for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Théberge, I believe you suggested earlier that, in certain areas, anglophones in Quebec are less well off than francophones.

Can you give me a specific example and tell me your source for that statement?

[Raymond Théberge]

The source is Statistics Canada. I am relying on the current data on family income and level of education. I would be pleased to send you more information about it.

Earlier, I mentioned that the communities have evolved over the past 50 years. The English-speaking community in Quebec has also evolved a lot over the past 50 years. It is important to recognize that. The English-speaking community in Quebec has its own challenges, just as French-speaking communities outside Quebec have their own challenges. I feel that it is important to mention that.

I will provide you with the source and the data to support my comments.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I would love to look at that. In my opinion, the average income of anglophones is still much higher than that of francophones. There are many studies on the subject, but the issue is far from settled.

How can French be protected in Quebec through positive measures such as those in Part VII of the Official Languages Act?

[Raymond Théberge]

Quebec already has several mechanisms to better protect French. By that I mean mechanisms that are more provincial than federal. I think that...

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Is it your opinion that the federal level can do nothing more?

[Raymond Théberge]

In the agreements it can reach in areas such as education, early childhood and immigration, the federal government can also ensure that Quebec has the tools it needs to protect French.

That is a special situation. Part VII of the Act is designed to support official language minority communities. It is not intended to support majority communities. On the other hand, the bill does in a way commit to protecting and promoting French in Quebec and in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Commissioner.

The floor now goes to Niki Ashton, for two and a half minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Commissioner, I would like to come back to the issue of immigration, which also ties into recruitment.

On the one hand, we know that we have a problem recruiting professionals and teachers from early childhood to university. On the other hand, we know that the continent of Africa has a large number of francophones and a potentially large recruitment pool.

Should we not put in place positive measures that are specifically aimed at increasing the recruitment potential in African countries?