Evidence of meeting #35 for Official Languages in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was regions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker
Mr. Hominuk, you spoke for exactly five minutes too. Perhaps you and Ms. Roy rehearsed together.
Mr. Prud'homme, the floor is yours for five minutes.
Eric Prud'homme Director, Québec and Atlantic Government Relations, Canadian Bankers Association
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, my name is Eric Prud'homme. I am the director, Québec and Atlantic Government Relations for the Canadian Bankers Association, or CBA. My colleague, Christian Petit‑Frère, the CBA's senior legal counsel, is joining me today.
We thank you for this opportunity to discuss the draft regulations on the use of French in federally regulated private businesses.
Before we proceed, I would like to inform you that, late yesterday afternoon, we made the same presentation to the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages.
We welcomed the introduction to Parliament of the draft regulations on the use of French in federally regulated private businesses by the Minister of Canadian Identity and Culture and Minister responsible for Official Languages.
The CBA states once again that the banks acknowledge the importance of Canada's two official languages and that they do their very best to serve their clients in the language of their choice anywhere in Canada. The banks also recognize the critical importance for francophone employees to be able to work in French when they work in a region with a strong francophone presence.
The banks have always done their best to respond to their clients' language preferences. In the regions with a strong francophone presence, such as Quebec, of course, but also New Brunswick and eastern Ontario, the major Canadian banks are already offering personal services in French.
Furthermore, clients anywhere in Canada can access service in French by telephone, online and by using web platforms. Today, more than ever before, the banks' huge investments in technology have put a greater number of simple and practical ways to access financial products and services at the disposal of francophone and anglophone clients. These investments have demonstrably increased the way in which the banks communicate and interact with their clients and conduct their internal operations. As a result, francophone clients can access certain banking documents in French from wherever they are.
Studies show that most consumers use online banking services and banking applications. These technological advances allow them to conduct their banking from anywhere in the country. In parallel, traditional bank branches located in rural communities, both small and large, are still important in Canada's banking network.
The banking sector has lived up to its commitments in terms of the availability of products and services in French and of francophone positions, whether in Quebec or in other parts of Canada.
We feel that it is reasonable for organizations like banks to have a degree of flexibility in applying language requirements to match the nature, the scope and the complexity of their activities, their distribution channels, and the products and services they provide. It must also be remembered that small and medium-sized banks do not have the resources that the larger banks can deploy in response to certain requirements.
Nevertheless, the banking sector is aware of the importance of offering good-quality, well-paying jobs in francophone communities. It will not hesitate to do so when suitable candidates are available to fill them.
We note that some very small areas in some provinces are designated as regions with a strong francophone presence. In those areas, it may well be even more difficult to recruit suitable candidates for certain positions. In future revisions of these legislative provisions, therefore, we recommend tightening the criteria used to designate an area as a region with a strong francophone presence.
As for human resources, the members of our association are in favour of the provisions on exemptions. Nevertheless, our association recommends flexibility in the matter of supervising francophone employees in regions with a strong francophone presence, taking into account the uniqueness of each situation.
Finally, before the requirements come into force, it is essential that there be an implementation period that gives enough time to adapt systems, to train staff and to hire additional employees.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker
Thank you, Mr. Prud'homme.
I did hear that you testified before the Senate yesterday. The members here are known for asking even more difficult questions. Be ready.
The floor now goes to Mr. Godin, for six minutes.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First, my thanks to the four witnesses for joining us today.
I am going to start with the representatives of the Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario.
You spoke about the designation of regions with a strong francophone presence. I see that as the key point in your presentation today. I gather that you feel that what is described is the minimum and you would like more to be done.
What does “more to be done” mean for you?
Your mandate is Ontario, of course. The draft regulations identify a number of regions, eight to be precise. What do you feel is missing in the list?
Executive Director, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario
The rest of the province is missing.
Mr. Godin, one of our strengths as Franco-Ontarians is that we live in all regions of Ontario. Some regions are historic in that we have been there for a very long time. These draft regulations completely ignore southern Ontario, where I come from, as well as regions like Welland, Windsor, Chatham-Kent, Sarnia and London. They are all designated areas under the French Language Services Act and federally identified for services in French. There is also the town of Penetanguishene, where I lived for a long time. The people there would never forgive me if I did not add the town to the list.
So when we look at where the francophone population is concentrated, we see that it is actually scattered all around the province.
At the moment, I am touring with the Estates General of French Ontario and I am in the process of visiting all those communities. The people in those communities are emphatic when they tell me that they feel that the federal government and the province have forgotten that they exist. They feel that they have almost become second-class citizens inside those communities.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Mr. Hominuk, what you are saying is music to my ears. Aren't you surprised to hear that coming out of my mouth?
What I am gathering is that the Use of French in Federally Regulated Private Businesses Act—the one we are discussing today—does not achieve its objective. As you rightly said, the French language in Ontario is not defined by percentages. As I understand it, much more has to be done in covering the entire area of Ontario so that francophones and francophiles can have access to services in French when they are served in federally regulated private businesses.
Do I understand correctly? Am I reflecting your thinking correctly?
Executive Director, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario
Absolutely.
Some regions that I see as essential have been omitted. They are some of the oldest regions in Ontario.
However, we must not forget large centres, like the cities of Toronto and Mississauga, or areas within Toronto, like Scarborough or Etobicoke, where a significant number of francophones live and where organizations provide services in French. Some institutions, such as the TAIBU community health centre in Scarborough, are set up to provide services in both official languages. Lots of francophone centres in greater Toronto provide services. That kind of organization is flourishing at the moment. It's one of the major attractions in the regions now welcoming huge numbers of immigrants.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
I hear you clearly, Mr. Hominuk; I feel that we are on the same page. I have made careful notes: you want the criteria defining regions with a strong francophone presence to be broadened.
I will now turn to the Canadian Bankers Association.
Mr. Prud'homme, in your remarks, you talked about flexibility. You also talked about the time needed to implement the measures.
First, is two years enough to implement those measures?
Second, what do you have in mind when you say that you want flexibility?
Director, Québec and Atlantic Government Relations, Canadian Bankers Association
To answer your first question, I would say that two years seems to us to be a reasonable transition period.
I did not mention this in the introduction because some of you already know the Canadian Bankers Association. But we represent 60 banks from the 80 that are active in Canada. Of those, 40 provide services to individuals, which is what we are concerned with here. So there is competition and it is real.
So two years seems reasonable to us; it's a good start. However, the reality is not the same for all the members of our association. There are very large banks, the ones everyone knows, but then there are also smaller banks that have fewer resources.
That's how I would answer your first question.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
You mentioned that your members provide many services to the Canadian public in many different ways, like on the web. Investments are being made in applications and technology. But unfortunately—and I really do mean “unfortunately”—the technology is often developed in English only.
Think of all your activities, all your means of communication and dissemination to your clients, and all the tools you have in place. Are they 100% in both languages?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker
There are only 20 seconds left, so I would ask you to provide a short answer, please.
Director, Québec and Atlantic Government Relations, Canadian Bankers Association
Okay.
We serve clients in the language of their choice. On the digital banking platforms, clients can choose the language of their choice.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Do you lose French-speaking clients if you do not provide a service in French?
Director, Québec and Atlantic Government Relations, Canadian Bankers Association
The CBA is not involved in operational matters, unfortunately.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
So you don't know.
Thank you, Mr. Prud'homme.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker
Thank you very much.
The floor now goes to Ms. Chenette, for six minutes.
Liberal
Madeleine Chenette Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Good afternoon, esteemed guests and witnesses. Thank you for being here.
I am going to continue the conversation with the CBA representatives, because I did not hear the reply about flexibility. I am interested in knowing what flexibility is. You provided the background but I would like to know more about it.
Christian Petit-Frère Senior Legal Counsel, Canadian Bankers Association
As an example, let's take the supervision of employees, or more precisely, the supervision of an employee in French. There may be guidelines that say exactly how it is to be done, but some flexibility is necessary. For example, can someone outside a designated region supervise an employee inside that designated region?
The issue also arises in providing services. For example, if no employee is available to serve a client in person, does that mean that we could make an appointment to ensure that the client is served in French? Does it mean that an employee could be brought from another branch to provide that service?
Liberal
Madeleine Chenette Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you for those explanations.
That is actually one thing that irritates French speakers: having to make an appointment instead of having an employee directly available. I have to tell you that your request for flexibility is somewhat the opposite of what we are trying to achieve here.
You mentioned small and medium-sized banks. I would like to ask how many employees the smallest banks in your association have?
Director, Québec and Atlantic Government Relations, Canadian Bankers Association
I cannot give you an answer right away.
Liberal
Madeleine Chenette Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
We are talking about more than 100 employees, right?
Director, Québec and Atlantic Government Relations, Canadian Bankers Association
Yes, for sure.
Liberal
Madeleine Chenette Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
I would like to be sensitive to your concern about small and medium-sized businesses. But basically, that is precisely what we want to encourage: situations where people can be served in French and where companies are able to. I feel that the banks already have much more ability to do so.
What I want to say upfront is that we are turning a corner where, in terms of geopolitics, it is important for Canada to put a value on both our official languages. It gives us a great advantage in attracting investments from around the world. The strength of bilingualism in Canada will be a clearly distinguishing feature of our culture and our strength. So it's time to be more assertive in terms of achieving results.
In that context, I am now going to turn to the representatives from the Association de la francophonie de l'Ontario.
As I understand it, you agree with the statement from the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada when it comes to changing the criteria used to determine which areas are designated,
So let me ask you a quick question: Do you agree with the FCFA's recommendation on the way to determine francophone areas in a designated region?
Executive Director, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario
My quick answer would be yes.