Evidence of meeting #41 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funds.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Corporate Management and Comptrollership, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
In the RCMP under HR we have a unit called national compensation and pension. That's where those funds were managed. So they were managed as part of the HR funds, but after 2000 all pension funds were separately accounted for.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
So you segregated them but managed them yourselves?
4:55 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Corporate Management and Comptrollership, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
They're managed within the RCMP.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Corporate Management and Comptrollership, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Prior to that they were basically part of the consolidated funding of the RCMP.
4:55 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Corporate Management and Comptrollership, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Exactly, sir.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Do you have an auditor, or does the Auditor General do the audit of the RCMP?
4:55 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Corporate Management and Comptrollership, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
We have an internal audit department that does regular internal audits. They did the first internal audit after the allegations were made.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Corporate Management and Comptrollership, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
I have a document that I think was circulated by the clerk called “Pension Plan Administration Audit”. It has no date or page numbers. It's actually pages out of a document, so it's rather strange that we would get this kind of thing. It also seems to be in one language; therefore, I would ask that it be translated into both official languages and tabled with the committee when appropriate.
I'm trying to understand, if you had billions of dollars under your administration--
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
If you had $10 billion under your administration, I'm trying to understand why you wouldn't have a serious plan by senior management to ensure that it was well entrusted. When I take a look at this audit that has no date, no page numbers, nothing, it says “their comptrollership responsibilities were neglected”, and further on, “the allocation of expenses to the pension plan, were questionable”.
It goes on to say:
procedures surrounding casual employees were not compliant with PSC and RCMP policies and procedures. These practices resulted in the hiring of individuals under conditions that may not meet public scrutiny.
I'm still trying to get my mind around the mentality of the RCMP in looking after this amount of money, where you investigate fraud each and every day, that you wouldn't say, “We have all this money; we'd better be squeaky clean on it ourselves.”
Does anybody have an explanation as to why there was this lackadaisical attitude, that somebody is looking after it?
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Mr. Williams, just before we hear from Mr. Gauvin, the document you're talking about we do have in both official languages.
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
So we have circulated it to the members, but perhaps before the witness answers Mr. Williams' question you could identify when this was done and what it relates to, so that we could have the context of the document.
5 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Corporate Management and Comptrollership, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Mr. Chairman, Mr. Aiken, the internal auditor, has just joined us at the table. He is responsible for that report, so perhaps I'd defer to him.
February 21st, 2007 / 5 p.m.
Brian Aiken Chief Audit Executive, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The document I have in front of me actually is page-numbered. But we can certainly resubmit a new document that does have page numbering on it.
5 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Okay. I read some of these things. Why would the RCMP be so lackadaisical in its recognition of the responsibilities of handling $10 billion of taxpayers' funds?
5 p.m.
Chief Audit Executive, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The document was submitted to the commissioner in October 2003.
5 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Okay. Does anybody have a response to this? I note, Madam Commissioner, that you're trying to tell us how the Auditor General has given you a clean bill of health now, but you made no reference to this document in your opening statement.
Madam George or Madame Busson, who wants to speak on this?
