Public Accounts Committee on April 18th, 2007

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I'd just like to hear this tape. It sounds fascinating.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Is that tape not the tape that we're talking about, that was played here, and we transcribed it?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

No, it's not.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Perhaps if I can get from you, Deputy Commissioner--

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

We can just send a request to the commissioner directly. We'll get the clerk to do it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Okay.

I have one question again, and I'm just going to spend a minute on it. I'm going to go back to you, Inspector Roy.

It's an interesting point here about Staff Sergeant Frizzell's removal. You were--and I'm going to come back--the chief investigator. This was supposedly an independent investigation. It was your decision as to who was doing what. If there were any impropriety, wrong reviews, aggressiveness, harassment, it was your problem, and it was your problem to deal with it. Now, I know you answered the question before. You said that because the investigation was over, you wanted everyone returned to their previous positions. Did you ask Barbara George or Gork or anyone else to have Staff Sergeant Frizzell removed because of improper behaviour?

[Paul Roy]

I asked David Gork to have him removed because of improper behaviour and also because the investigation was over.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

What was the nature of this improper behaviour?

[Paul Roy]

There were several incidents during the course of the investigation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

What were these incidents?

[Paul Roy]

I would have to go back and get the details of this, Mr. Chair. I do not have my--

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Okay, I'm going to get an undertaking from you to do that--get the details as to why you went to Mr. Gork with this--and provide that to the committee in writing.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Chairman, I just have to say again, you questioned Mr. Roy about this particular issue, and he mentioned that he had had problems and that there had been problems with Staff Sergeant Frizzell, but he did not give us the information, and he practically circled and went all the way around and avoided giving us the information that he had talked to Assistant Commissioner Gork.

They are required, Mr. Chairman, to give fulsome answers to this committee--no beating around the bush, no evasiveness, no half truths, bit of truths, or some of the truth. We are entitled to fulsome answers. I want to know why police officers at this committee are finding that they have to evade giving decent and fulsome answers when they're asked simple and direct questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Mr. Williams, you're quite correct. I asked the question before, and he said there were issues, but they were quite manageable. Now we're getting a different story, so it's disturbing. I know that.

The bells are ringing.

Mr. Christopherson, you have a motion. There is a meeting of the steering committee on Monday. Would you prefer...?

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

No, Chair. I think I have enough votes now, so I'd like to proceed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

You have enough votes now...I see.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

That's reassuring. That's democracy in action.

This will only take a minute, if witnesses would just remain where they are. Mr. Christopherson has a motion, and I'm going to ask him to read it or put it on the record.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I move that the Standing Committee on Public Accounts hold another meeting with the same witnesses who appeared on April 18, 2007, and that Ms. Denise Revine be invited back to this meeting also.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Before that goes any further, Mr. Christopherson, as he knows, needs unanimous consent to take it any further. Does Mr. Christopherson have unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Okay, then I'm going to proceed right to the question, because the bells are ringing.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Now we have another motion from Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, but again I will just take that as notice and put it in the next--

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I could read the motion, Chair, and we'll see whether or not there's unanimous consent on this. If not, then we'll have to wait until the next meeting:

That retired RCMP Sergeant Keith Esterbrooks appear before the Public Accounts Committee and that he should bring along all relevant documents and files which indicate the suppression of access to information requested by Mr. Gauvin, and that retired Sergeant Keith Esterbrooks bring along with him the files with the following ATIP number involving pension fund investigation:

and I list off the numbers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

You don't have to read them.

Before this goes any further, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj needs unanimous consent to table or discuss the motion.

Does Mr. Wrzesnewskyj have unanimous consent?