Evidence of meeting #62 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contract.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
Did anyone direct you to ensure that Morneau Sobeco became the insurance fund administrator for Great-West Life?
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
The Ottawa Police Service summary said that the most blatant example of contract manipulation was when Morneau Sobeco and Great-West Life assisted Mr. Crupi, Mr. Roy, and Mr. Casey at NCPC in bypassing government contracting regulations.
You must have seen that in the evidence that was presented earlier. Could you give me your feedback on that statement?
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
Okay.
Did you hear what I said? Do you want me to repeat it?
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
That the most blatant example of contract manipulation was when Morneau Sobeco and Great-West Life assisted Mr. Crupi, Mr. Roy, and Mr. Casey at NCPC in bypassing government contracting regulations.
How do you respond to that?
4:15 p.m.
As an Individual
As an outside contractor, I had no authority to direct a contract, sign a contract, or negotiate a contract.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
Well, that might be the case, but you were working along with and providing both the business cases for Great-West Life on this. Does it not put you in collaboration with the whole group?
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
They were separate exercises. What do you mean by that? You set up the business case. Subsequently, on the business case you developed with Morneau Sobeco, they ended up with the contract. How would it be separate?
4:15 p.m.
As an Individual
I don't see the light there at all. The business case was to go forward with an outsourcing option. There was no mention of who would get the contract.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
Yes, but where did you get the information from?
4:15 p.m.
As an Individual
On the insurance administration, we analyzed RCMP internal costs. We had Great-West Life costs, because we had been dealing with them for over a year, and my supervisors got costs from Morneau Sobeco.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
Was there another company in the same business that you also sought information from, other than Morneau Sobeco?
4:15 p.m.
As an Individual
As I mentioned in my opening statement, because of the stringent requirements for security, no, we didn't look at any outside ones. We realized the business case was only to compare inside and outside, and that was all.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
That's correct. But to do a fulsome business case, wouldn't you have to do a fact-finding mission on other companies that would do similar work within a different competitive environment? Wouldn't you do it for a good contract to be sourced?
4:15 p.m.
As an Individual
I did it under my director, the supervisor at the time, Mr. Roy. He gave me direction and he gave me the costs to compare.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
I understand that. But you were a consultant in order to develop this business case. Is that not correct?
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
Would they not go to you for expertise on how to develop a very high-quality business case?