Public Accounts Committee on Sept. 24th, 2026

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I appreciate that. I highlight it because I think the RCMP is trying to do a lot, and you guys did have some budget cuts this year once again. Trying to make the RCMP do more with less is something that.... We can find savings in other areas rather than do that with our RCMP.

The Liberal government is promoting this as 1,000 officers. That's not true. The Liberal government is trying to cut your budgets and make you do more with less in your budgets. What I'm trying to get at, Commissioner, is the fact that we need to be honest about what's going on with the RCMP. We need to be honest about how we're going to make sure that we protect our streets and keep them safe. It's not that the frontline officers aren't doing the best they can. It's that they're being asked to do more with less, and I really want to make that point clear today.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

There's no question. Do you have a response?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

Just very quickly, on the question itself, I'm not wanting to play politics, but in the last round of the comprehensive expenditure review, most government departments were tasked with a 15% reduction. The RCMP was tasked with only a 2% reduction. I will say that none of those reductions were done in contract provinces. They were all absorbed here in national headquarters.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Mr. Osborne, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Tom Osborne, Liberal, Cape Spear—Mount Pearl—Paradise, NL]

I want to explore the flexible posting plan for a moment and look at both sides of this plan. There has been some success after eliminating this plan in terms of the first two quarters. Can you talk about whether you're continuing to see a positive trend as a result of removing the flexible posting plan?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I want to go back to when the flexible posting plan was put in place. This was to address attrition, but it was also to address one of the recommendations of the MCC report, wherein the organization was criticized for members being in areas and not knowing the provincial history, the area and whatnot.

When you combine the attrition rate with how most people joining the RCMP at the time were, on average, 29 years old, coming out of school or having families, that's why our numbers shot from 15,000 or 17,000 to 20,000 interested applicants for two years in a row. We were bringing people back to their respective provinces and whatnot.

We became conscious and realized over time that it impacted specific divisions. A division is a province or territory. It impacted Saskatchewan, Manitoba, the Northwest Territories and the territory of Nunavut. At one point, we reset the flexible posting. With anybody who was coming into the organization through the recruiting process and was interested in going to Saskatchewan or Manitoba, we'd fast-track them through the process. They wouldn't skip any steps, but they'd be fast-tracked through the process and posted directly to Saskatchewan or Manitoba.

I can share with you that since we changed this.... I was talking with the commanding officer of Manitoba, and he is now in a position whereby he can release regular members and put frontline patrol members on specialized units within his division, because he's seen an increase in people in his division.

There are some adjustments. I recognize some of the issues—I'm not going to say “damage”—that were encountered by some of the divisions, but we adjusted. Right now, when someone comes through, we explain our operational needs, but we're also flexible. If we can send someone back home to their province, we'll send them back home.

British Columbia is a good example in which the cost of living is higher than in most parts of Canada. The commanding officer and I.... I have always told him that if he can load 32 people in a troop, we'll send them all back to British Columbia.

[Tom Osborne, Liberal, Cape Spear—Mount Pearl—Paradise, NL]

I wanted to explore this side of the flexible posting plan as well. The Auditor General identified the success of the flexible posting plan, although it was a double-edged sword. It proved to be very successful in many areas of the country, but in some areas of the country, it created a critical shortage.

At some point, will the RCMP revisit that plan because of its success? If it does, how do you address the fact that there was a critical shortage in certain areas? How do we attract people to those areas, if you're looking at something like the flexible posting plan again?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

Adam mentioned it earlier: The world of policing right now is highly competitive. There's recruiting going on, and it's challenging, regardless of what police force you are. This is not only in Canada. I meet with the Five Eyes partners, and they're feeling the same thing when it comes to recruiting people.

To go back to your question, the importance of having a flexible.... We have good candidates. Because they can't move somewhere.... Is that enough for us to say we can't put them through training because they don't want to move somewhere in Canada?

The other thing I want to highlight is that if you look at the province of B.C., it was having challenges with staffing the northern part of B.C. It came out with a specific strategy for staffing the north of British Columbia.

It would be foolish for me to say that if you go to the Depot, you'll serve everywhere in Canada when that strategy.... How are we going to enforce that strategy? The whole strategy is having people from the northern part of B.C. going back to the northern part of B.C., so we can ensure that we meet our commitments when it comes to police officers.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You have about 10 seconds. You can use them if you have a short question.

[Tom Osborne, Liberal, Cape Spear—Mount Pearl—Paradise, NL]

Let me use the 10 seconds. I'll ask questions when I come back.

I wanted to thank the Auditor General. Oftentimes, people look at your reports as finding what the government is doing wrong or what agencies are doing wrong, but really you look at how we can do things better and serve Canadians better.

I also wanted to thank the RCMP and your members. First responders in the country don't always get the praise and recognition they deserve, so I will recognize the work you're doing, and the work of your members as well.

I'll ask more questions when it comes back to my turn.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you, Mr. Osborne.

Mr. Blanchette‑Joncas, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Hogan, I'm going to summarize a few key points from your audit. Roughly speaking, in 2023, the RCMP was short 3,000 officers. The RCMP had recruitment problems because it hadn't planned its needs properly. Is that correct?

[Karen Hogan]

We found that the RCMP did not consider its needs across the organization. It really focused on one element, namely, front line police officers in contract policing. These are the experienced police officers in that group who, later on, occupy other federal positions. It is therefore essential to look at the situation across the RCMP, not just one element.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas]

You've noted that the recruitment and resource problem, particularly in the field, poses risks to the RCMP's ability to maintain its operational capacity as a police force.

[Karen Hogan]

I would like to qualify that a bit. It isn't a recruitment problem, because there are a lot of applicants. The problem was that the applications weren't being processed in a timely manner, to the point where many people were leaving or abandoning the process. We're hopeful that accelerated recruitment will make it possible to increase the number of individuals invited to participate in training.

Also, when you set a target that is much lower than the needs, it guarantees that you will never be able to fill all the necessary positions.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas]

The exact number of positions required is 3,000. Is that correct?

[Karen Hogan]

We estimated that number to be 3,400, taking attrition into account as well. This doesn't just include positions that are actually vacant; we also need to plan for people to leave in the future.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas]

Okay.

Mr. Duheme, in her 2023 report, the Auditor General mentioned 3,400 positions. In October 2026, three years later, the government is announcing only 1,000. I'm going to do a mathematical calculation, without taking attrition into account. If I subtract 1,000 from 3,400, that's 2,400.

Is there a risk today that you won't be able to maintain your operational capacity if you're recruiting only 1,000 officers?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I would say two things about the statistics that have been presented. When I look at the staffing level in the country, I mainly look at unfilled vacancies. If they're unfilled, it means that there's money for a position but that no one is occupying it. The percentage is lower than the one Ms. Hogan presented, because there are various factors. There are various unfilled positions that Ms. Hogan's speech takes into account.

I have a duty to ensure public safety across the country. The Government of Canada has contracts with the provinces throughout Canada, with the exception of Ontario and Quebec. I have to respect those contracts, which require me to keep people safe.

As I said in my opening remarks, and as Ms. Hogan mentioned, the problem we're facing dates back to 2018. Measures are in place to improve the system, attract the right people and ensure that the staffing process—from when someone enters the RCMP office to when they leave depot—lasts a maximum of six months.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

There we are. Thank you very much.

Mr. McCauley, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Commissioner, walk me through this discrepancy between the figure of 1,000 new officers that has been repeatedly stated and what you were saying earlier. Minister after minister has said it would be 1,000 new officers. You were saying that it will be 750, but of those, 350 are going to be internal transfers from contract to specialized. Did I hear that right?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

We're using the term “officers.” My mandate is for 750 police officers over three years and 250 additional personnel with the special expertise to support the federal policing. For the 350 in the first year, that calculation is based—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm sorry. Let's back up.

Of the 750, are those contract workers and the specialized personnel, or are they purely...?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

They're purely police officers. Let's call them “investigators.” They have different skill sets.

Out of those 750, the first-year commitment is 350 police officers. Out of that 350 number, in the last couple of years, we've been averaging about 100 to 150 experienced police officers. Those are police officers from other police departments who choose to join the RCMP. You can rely on these people with their expertise.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Will those be net bodies added?